Bloody hell BBC

[WorkingItOutAsIGo]

Reading the BBC news online this morning and there is not one, but two stories about transgender people. One promoting the transition of a small child, and the other promoting sport for transgender athletes. The latter in particular looks like a direct attempt to counter the news discussion over the last few days in sport.

This isn’t news, it’s wartime propaganda.

It’s not our fault Autumn won’t be a mother - biology is the bigot, not Mumsnetters.
Autumn is a male child who may or may not grow up to have gender dysphoria. Autumn can be a parent, and Autumn can get married. To a man, or a woman. This is a good thing.
Crikey, I haven’t even encouraged my kids to believe in Santa (or Jesus) - I certainly don’t want society/school/the parents of similar aged children telling my kids they can change sex. Sex is determined at conception and affects the way our children grow and the medical treatments they receive - boys with ALL (a common childhood Leukaemia) need a whole extra year of chemotherapy. Sex matters.

Just seems like a lot of you then think adopted mothers are not mothers or step mothers are not mothers or those who have surrogate babies are not mothers. Because you know they haven't "gestated and given birth to young."

Females are members of the sex with XX chromosomes, who bear ova (which were formed while she was still in her own mother's uterus) and are able to gestate and bear young.

So an infertile female or a female born without ova is not a female?

Males are the sex who produce semen

And yet if Autumn chose to go down the route of transition she wouldn't be able to produce semen.

Just seems like a lot of you then think adopted mothers are not mothers or step mothers are not mothers or those who have surrogate babies are not mothers. Because you know they haven't "gestated and given birth to young.

Oh, this again. It's still nonsensical however many times it's trotted out.

I've never had children. I'm still a woman.

Autumn can never be a woman.

SarahH12
Obviously they are. Females without ova or infertile are still females. Castrated males are still genetically male even if they transition into transfemales.

Don’t be silly. Lots of us are adopted/step mothers - that’s a legal status. Valid but different (same as trans identified males can apply for a legal status that makes them valid but different).
Some of us couldn’t become mothers and joined Mumsnet to talk about those fertility problems. Some of us have had women’s cancers and/or hysterectomies. We know what a woman is because we all came out of one.
For someone who signed up here claiming to be GC, you seem awfully fond of TRA talking points.

Oh, this again. It's still nonsensical however many times it's trotted out.

How on earth is it nonsensical? I wasn't referring to being a woman I was referring specifically to the absurd notion that Autumn can't be a mother if that's what she chooses in the future.

For someone who signed up here claiming to be GC, you seem awfully fond of TRA talking points

I have no idea what either of those abbreviations mean.

And yet if Autumn chose to go down the route of transition she wouldn't be able to produce semen.

I've had a hysterectomy. Still a woman.

And yet if Autumn chose to go down the route of transition she wouldn't be able to produce semen.

Yes, but Autumn will still be of the sex which produces semen?

So an infertile female or a female born without ova is not a female?

Dictionary definition of female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs

A woman who is born without ova or is infertile is still of the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs.

Someone who is born XY male, takes drugs to make them infertile, gets their genitals removed is not of the sex that can bear offspring or produce ova.

Do you think that someone who doesn't bear children because their female reproductive system doesn't work is the same as someone who doesn't bear children because they have a male reproductive system?

Definition of mother: a woman in relation to her child or children.

Definition of woman: an adult human female.

Definition of female: see above.

So an infertile female or a female born without ova is not a female?

And yet if Autumn chose to go down the route of transition she wouldn't be able to produce semen

A eunuch is male.

You're trying to flog the tired old argument that if trans women can't be mothers, women who adopt or are stepmothers aren't 'real' mothers either.

It's a false equivalence. It's been heard many, many times before and that still doesn't give it any validity. We're talking about whether male-bodied people can become female. Which they can't.

You're trying to flog the tired old argument that if trans women can't be mothers, women who adopt or are stepmothers aren't 'real' mothers either.

No not at all. I'm purely commenting on what somebody else said that mothers are those who have gestated and given birth to young - except all those other mothers I've listed have not gestated and given birth to young.

That bicycle video will never get old - 'it's a freaking bicylce'!

Brilliant analogy.

Cats have fur and humans don't.

So this a picture of a human or a cat Sarah?

I bet you are scratching your head arent you.

So an infertile female or a female born without ova is not a female?

Oh dear, not that one again. Sarah, since you seem to be having difficulty with the arguments here, perhaps you could answer a couple of questions.

Do you understand how babies are made?

Do you understand how we know whether a baby is male or female when it's born?

Do you think people can change sex?

No not at all. I'm purely commenting on what somebody else said that mothers are those who have gestated and given birth to young - except all those other mothers I've listed have not gestated and given birth to young.

If you are referring to this post:

Females are members of the sex with XX chromosomes, who bear ova (which were formed while she was still in her own mother's uterus) and are able to gestate and bear young.

That is not what was said.

And yet if Autumn chose to go down the route of transition she wouldn't be able to produce semen.

An infertile man is not a woman. Just as an infertile woman is not a man. HTH.

Ah OK, I see you are referring to this comment.

Mothers are females who have gestated and given birth to young.

I see what you are saying but the definition of 'mother' is 'a woman in relation to her child'.

Autumn will never be a woman, therefore Autumn will never be a mother.

I'm purely commenting on what somebody else said that mothers are those who have gestated and given birth to young

Did somebody type that on this thread? I may have missed that. Could you point it out?

Sarah you seem to be missing the point here. We’re not concerned with semantics about the definition of the word ‘mother’. We care about a 9yo kid who is being told a pack of lies and being led down an unrealistic and impossible path. We can’t bear to see kids being unnecessarily deprived of healthy bodies, the chance to become a parent, future sexual function.

Do you understand how babies are made?
As I've said numerous times, gestating and giving birth to a baby doesn't make you their mother. You can be a mother in a number of ways including when you're not genetically related to the baby. Nobody seems to be answering the question of would you say in a lesbian couple only one of them is mother because the baby only came from one of their eggs? Of course not, you'd say that they're both the baby's mother.

Do you understand how we know whether a baby is male or female when it's born?

I understand how a doctor defines it but nobody can predict at birth whether a child will have gender dysphoria.

Do you think people can change sex?

Gender and sex are two different things. I think a person can change gender.

What exactly are you all trying to achieve except promoting transphobic, backwards thinking hate speech?

Xpost with Rocky

Did somebody type that on this thread? I may have missed that. Could you point it out?

@AornisHades from @WeRiseUp on page 8, Today at 9:15

Mothers are females who have gestated and given birth to young.

One more question, Sarah.

Do you think it is right to teach children that they can change sex?

This is what Autumn's parents and teachers are doing by telling Autumn that Autumn can grow up to be a woman and a mother.

How do you feel about telling a child lies which could have such an enormous effect on their whole life?