Panorama 25 Feb 20.30hrs: Trans Kids: Why Medicine Matters **Thread title edited by MNHQ**

[TimeLady]

"More young people than ever are exploring their gender identity. Last year, two and a half thousand under-eighteens were referred to NHS England's gender identity clinics for support. Some are hoping to get access to potentially irreversible treatments as soon as they can. Doctors are divided about the best way to help."

"Dr Faye Kirkland investigates how much we understand about the care being offered to transgender children."

Wow. That was an excellent, respectful and nuanced programme. And the young people (especially Jade) came over as so thoughtful.
Essentially it confirmed what we all know - that our children are being experimented on, mutilated and sterilised in order to improve their mental health / gender dysphoria but there is zero evidence that this works. What is that basic medical ethic? First do no harm?

Credit where credit is due - well done to the Faye Kirkland and the BBC for this.

Ok, but a bit wishy washy. Should have mentioned the numbers detransitioning, and the implications of surgery and taking hormones for the rest of your life.

Agree that the idea of doing experiments on children, which is what this is, is appalling. We don’t allow this with any other drug. We have huge clinical trials.

the thing is, Jade is obviously intelligent and has self awareness. Jade wants to wait and see. She doesn't want to rush. What about the others who have pushy parents, or want what they want right now and fuck the consequences because they just want blockers? And they want them now. And when there are actual doctors out there happy to collude with this narrative?

Reuben seemed very measured, pointing out that people were afraid of being called a bigot for asking questions, which leaves lots of unexplored areas re treatment and care for trans people.

Oh dear. Someone's not happy

Poor Jade

Bit surprised they barely mentioned the effects we do know about - infertility, bone density, IQ.

Also hard to square the 'reversible' line with the stories we've heard about kids like Jazz Jennings whose physical and genital development stopped when they started on blockers. Would that be reversible?

And would have liked Dr Carmichael to debunk the suicide stats properly, with actual numbers. But given, as others have said, it's the BBC, much better than I expected.

Oh Jade 😢

I hope you find what you are looking for.

I thought it was a bit something and nothing overall - it wasn’t clear or explicit enough on what these irreversible, physical treatments being demanded are - that the 12 year old female prescribed testosterone by HW will be infertile, for example, wasn’t stated. Nor were the reasons why there is such pressure on kids to identify as transgender explored, where they are getting the ideology from. But they only had half an hour.

Definitely a massive step forward for the BBC though.

And Jade, on the offchance you ever read this - you are absolutely perfect as you are sweetheart. You are beautiful and talented and creative beyond many people’s wildest dreams. Don’t change a thing , I hope you can find peace and acceptance of yourself, you are enough, just as you are.

Great to see a GP/journalist fronting this. At least the right questions are starting to be asked.

If Webberley disapproves, I'd say the programme has done its job.

Surely it must be so obvious to everyone who watched that that something is seriously, dangerously wrong. In what other situation can you imagine a medical professional talking about their specialist area and being afraid to show their name and face? And surely Polly Carmichael, for all she seems to be really reasonable, has to have contributed to that situation, where her staff are too scared to say what they think openly on camera?

Poor Jade I think is the most traumatised and fragile person I’ve ever seen. Horribly sad.

It needed to be an hour really to go deeper into the issues of fertility etc but I wasn't expecting this from the BBC tbh. When I saw HW at the start I thought, here we go....and looking at her twitter feed she wasn't expecting this either.

My DH didn’t watch it with me but he caught the end and I’ve managed to have a decent discussion with him about the concerns I have. I think he’s peaked (is that right terminology?!) as 6 months ago, he was quite cold about my views and concerns.

I wanted to give Jade a big hug and give her all the support and counselling she needs. What it made me think was the lack of mental health support (in general) for people like Jade who need it.

Reuben was good - his ending summary was powerful.

I wonder if they avoided a too hard-hitting approach, in case it traumatised those currently undergoing treatment. It's a fine line.

And Jade, on the offchance you ever read this - you are absolutely perfect as you are sweetheart. You are beautiful and talented and creative beyond many people’s wildest dreams. Don’t change a thing , I hope you can find peace and acceptance of yourself, you are enough, just as you are.

This. A million times.

I wonder how different life could have been different for Jade if that teacher had said "sure, you can be an angel...put these wings on and SING it!"

Poor Jade. Not being allowed to express yourself how you want to is a recipe for the deepest misery.

According to HW on twitter, "not one trans child got to speak and be heard". I think I must have watched a different programme.

Appears to be Wed in Scotland and tonight elsewhere.

I think it is on tonight on Scotland, just really late.

Another vote for Reuben as the voice of reason and another hug for Jade!

That was a very gentle introduction to some of the concerns wasn't it?
Gently mentioning brain development. Gently mentioning live experiments. Gently mentioning the stats are all rubbish.

I think it was softly spoken but a good piece. I don't think Panorama can do justice to any topic in half an hour though.

Yes seriously you wonder what difference it would have made to Jade if that ruddy school person got over themselves and said yes, absolutely you be an angel, with sparkly wings and halos, boys can wear anything they want to.

I thought it was good. Jade and Reuben came across so well and I just felt they have been let down in terms of support. I think they had to interview Helen Webberley because otherwise there would be so many comments about the programme being one-sided. The young transgender people on Stella O'Malley's programme were also thoughtful, articulate and sympathetic. They deserve better than people like (insert long list of TRAs and woke allies) threateningly shutting down any discussion.

Agree - we need a lot more talking therapy treatment and people that can listen to young people - ax the board.

A lot of these kids need someone to listen to them - in a world that is increasingly busy, chaotic and demanding of young people

I often said I wanted to be a boy when I was a child. I wasn't dsyphoric but I had two brothers and I could see that I was treated differently sometimes (plus they didn't have to wear uncomfortable dresses to church). And no one, not me nor anyone else thought anything of it.

What’s the problem Helen? Hoping your little awkwardness with the GMC wouldn’t come up?
Seriously that programme felt to me like fresh, clean air finally being let in to a very smelly, squalid, sordid little room. More please from dr Kirkland