Unfortunately, I tend to end up with straight men, even though I am not a woman.

[FloralBuntingIsObnoxious]

For connoisseurs of magnificently pretentious navel gazing, this is pure gold. I have tears of mirth rolling down my cheeks at some of this, and it's utterly impossible to parody. I don't know how Titania does it, tbh.

My favourite part?

These responses have been edited for length and clarity.

You really can't tell.

www.teenvogue.com/story/what-dating-and-love-is-like-for-10-non-binary-people

(Oh, and I'm not going to be twee and put 'light hearted' in the thread title, because there is no way any rational person could take any of this seriously at all)

No other 'group' would get away with speaking like this about another group. Treating women (whom they claim to want to be) as a collection of body parts, just there for the stealing, the body-robbers.

If it wasn't such dangerous and criminal talk it would simply be very sad. If you were to present to a GP talking like this it would go straight on your notes as being a risk to others, and very delusional and ill.

It's also hard to still not feel the sadness for it all evenso.

It's certainly something over and above the usual bitter rhetoric.

This person is not going to be able to form useful relationships.

Oh my god, that stuff about bone broth. How horrible and frightening. Yes, if I met someone saying this in real life I’d think they were an immediate danger to others. I’d be going to their doctor and reporting them to the police.
Who ultimately owns Teen Vogue? Is there any scope for someone with access to the tweets (now protected) to complain to them that they’re giving a platform to someone who sounds that terrifying?
Who advertises in Teen Vogue?

And we used to take the piss out of navel gazing on the level of ‘Pavement.’

How did we reach these epic levels of self absorption?

That tweet is hideous.

And yes, it is more reminiscent of a male incel mindset than something a woman would write.

They've never come across as anything other than that to me when actually speaking to them online, to a greater or a lesser degree.

The author of the TeenVogue article, who tweeted about shitting in dead babies’ urns and cannibalizing women, received a 12 hour ban from Twitter.

@SantaClaraXX, who was on the receiving end of the abusive tweet, was permanently banned, her account suspended.

In that teen Vogue article I noticed that the word "valid" i.e. "you/we are valid" occured in every single one. Meaning that they desperately wish their identity to be seen as real and accepted. Maybe because deep down they know that gender isn't real they need it validating again and again that it is just so that they feel ok about being on the bandwagon. Deep down they must realise that what they are calling "misgendering" of them (if they are female, which most of th seem to be) is actually sexism. Your partner shouldn't be "treating you as" any gender. If a partner of mine "treated me like a woman" I would be miffed too. That's not about being transgender. It's not wanting to be reduced to your sex in a sexist world and not wanting horrible gendered expectations. Nobody wants that if they've anything about them! Are their parents or decent teachers not telling them this? These young people need to be given a good feminist education and so do their partners. As the agender person must deeply know, gender does not exist - it's a bunch of social lies about how people should feel/act based on their sex at birth. There is no dilemma here for these young people if they realised this deeply. They can be female and not be "treated as" females i.e. sexism, if they refuse to accept this treatment.

The author of the TeenVogue article, who tweeted about shitting in dead babies’ urns and cannibalizing women, received a 12 hour ban from Twitter.

@SantaClaraXX, who was on the receiving end of the abusive tweet, was permanently banned, her account suspended.

I wish I could say I was surprised 😡

That's disgraceful. Twitter is a cesspit.

I must have been doing sex wrong all these years, because I'm jiggered if I can work out how it would be different if I were sleeping with a male bodied NB

"I’d like to remind all nonbinary people that they are valid"

Reminding people of "X" variety that "you are valid!!!!" seems to be a real obsession with young people these days. No one is telling them they aren't real people, so I assume what they really mean by "valid" is "whatever crazy thing you have decided about yourself is unquestionably true despite all evidence to the contrary."

"They want a partner who will consistently tell the fib about them being neither sex."

The sad thing bout that is the kind of men who will sleep with a confused girl like that is usually the kind of man who only wants to take advantage and doesn't care about her. A mature/healthy man often doesn't want a sexually confused. immature woman with issues for a romantic partner, one who will yell at him for calling her "she". (I say it in this way because often I find "nonbinaries" are young women who don't like being girls.)

I've only gone on, maybe, two or three dates in all my life, and one of those wasn't a date for the other person
Lol I'd love to know more about that. Maybe they got a taxi somewhere?

I've only gone on, maybe, two or three dates in all my life, and one of those wasn't a date for the other person

yeah, I had questions about that too StealthPolarBear

as you say, could be a taxi ride.

Job interview?
Doctors Appointment?

so many possibilities!

Shopping trip with gran?
Sitting in a coffee shop near someone else?

Reminding people of "X" variety that "you are valid!!!!" seems to be a real obsession with young people these days.

Oh! That's just sparked a memory for me - a few years ago it was all the rage to be saying "Bisexual people are valid! Even if you've never so much as kissed someone of the same sex and have always had opposite sex relationships! If you feel it, you are it!" I remember being a little bit warmed by that - I had rejected and been rejected by the "scene" way back in my teens ("for not looking gay enough" ). I don't make a big deal of my sexuality and have been happily married to a man for a long time after a mixture of partners, but it still irked me to be written off as "a teenage fad" just because my current relationship looks straight (irks me even more now that one of the people that did that turned out to be AGP).

Still, after a few weeks of it doing the rounds on Twitter I started rolling my eyes at the victim mentality (because it was always tied to "bi erasure" and deciding that validation from a random stranger was pointless. I can absolutely see why it appeals to young people who are struggling with emotional difficulties or peer pressure. I wonder if "bi validation" acted as a testbed for what followed?

And they reckon social contagion is not a factor in any of this..... Riiiiggghhtt.

Andrea says 'My idea of nonbinary romance is a comfortable, loving space where experimentation and communication are always welcome.'

Unlike those awful smelly cisheteronormative romances where people want to be totally uncomfortable and experimentation and communication are never welcome.

Also, so bored of seeing the words' authentic self' bloody everywhere. For a movement which claims to place so much value on being your 'authentic self' they spend an awful lot of time telling kids that they are not OK just the way they are.

I want my hetero normative cis gender authentic self to be recognised please.

I've just watched Riley D's latest about what's great about being trans. The second thing Riley said was how great it was to be able to call everyone 'transphobic' with impunity, what a hilarious joke it was, and the third thing was it made you a much more compassionate person, (total disconnect between the two points!) and then later how much more introspectively self aware trans people are than 'cis' people.

So, essentially, all this incredibly dull self obsession is actually thought of as a really positive selling point.

Massive, massive gulf between self awareness and self obsession.

Interesting article recently out about treating young people with low self esteem and that none of the modern strategies work because they all encourage more and more self obsession and fixation on their own internal state. Which leads to more obsessing over how they'll feel if x happens or they don't do x or what x is thinking about them and anxiety over how they'll feel about it. End result: self obsession, low self esteem because of self obsession and any existing self esteem wholly based on others being equally concerned with their internal state and maintaining it for them - 'don't upset me, I need you to keep me happy'.

Something Lundy Bancroft often notes as part of the mindset that lets abusive men abuse without guilt/stopping themselves: a belief that their internal state should be as important to everyone else as it is to them, and anger if someone doesn't take it as seriously or make it as much of a priority as they do.

What does more successfully raise self esteem is, according to the research, support to think about and engage with something other than themselves. Breaking the habit of internal fixation.

And no, compassion is not something I've noticed from the TRA lobby as a whole.

It was the death/rape threats, erasure, dismissal of everyone else's needs, feelings and concerns and wanting to put people in gulags that gave that one away.

How on earth does anyone find a new relationship these days? I always thought it was difficult enough working out the 'do they like me' part, but now you have to work out if they have the right biological bits for your taste (without being accused of being something you're not), what you can call yourself without offending someone, and what you can call them (and does it vary according to what day it is and which way the wind is blowing). And that's in addition to learning what all the abbreviations mean. Bonkers.

Yeah, Riley also thinks trans people have a better relationship with their body than c*s people because of all the time they have spent thinking about what they don't like about it or something. Obviously Riley 'examine your aversion to cock' D is full of shit, but Riley is exactly the kind of voice the people in the article will be listening to.

With the necessary warning that I am not an expert and am drawing on anecdote not data, I reckon that the people who spend less time thinking about what they do and don't like about their body have a far better relationship with it. Acceptance that those stretchmarks aren't going to disappear - and that's Ok! - is far better than sitting around wondering whether a nose job or a face lift would make you look more attractive