Unfortunately, I tend to end up with straight men, even though I am not a woman.

[FloralBuntingIsObnoxious]

For connoisseurs of magnificently pretentious navel gazing, this is pure gold. I have tears of mirth rolling down my cheeks at some of this, and it's utterly impossible to parody. I don't know how Titania does it, tbh.

My favourite part?

These responses have been edited for length and clarity.

You really can't tell.

www.teenvogue.com/story/what-dating-and-love-is-like-for-10-non-binary-people

(Oh, and I'm not going to be twee and put 'light hearted' in the thread title, because there is no way any rational person could take any of this seriously at all)

It’s so easy to find other nonbinary and LGBT people online. OkCupid is great for gender diverse people — a plus is you can even hide straight people from showing up in your feed (LOL).

Does anyone else see the irony in this comment?

Only halfway through but this is winning for me:

I'm asexual and aromantic, so my experiences in dating are very different from most others. For example, I think I've only gone on, maybe, two or three dates in all my life, and one of those wasn't a date for the other person. Because I don't really date, most of my thoughts on dating have come from either before I knew I was aro, or as just passing thoughts on what dating would be like. In short, I guess most of my experience has been in video games and writing.

No wonder Chris Morris is having an extended break.

The attempt to normalize a very unhealthy attitude about relationships and dating is so obvious.

I don't think their attitudes towards relationships and dating are unhealthy, or even unconventional. A lot of the quotes are saying be with somebody who gets your desire to be yourself, doesn't try to change you and who you feel good around. I think that's an incredibly uncontroversial attitude to relationships. It's their attitude towards their own (and their partners') identities that is different from normal for most of us.

We cannot or should not look to others to validate ourselves.

And yet almost all of us do, just not so much (noticeably) for our gender identities. Look at the AIBU board... lots of people seeking validation of their opinions.

External validation plays a huge role in teenager's development, (and is nothing new, it's just what and how explicitly they're asking to be validated that's different) and it never stops being a part of most if not all of our lives.

Psychiatrists and mental health professionals have noted extensively that extrinsic motivation and acceptance is not conducive to true happiness.

Yes. And a great many people struggle with it.

At its core, I believe the gender movement is based on individuals with deep identity disorders.

Perhaps. I don't know.

It's no wonder that most of these young people sound incredibly sad and with fairly grim outlooks on the future.

I'm puzzled as to why it sounds like they have grim outlooks on the future to you. Teen angst is a thing most of us do as part of our development, and most of us end up pretty who adjusted and functional. More than one poster here has said if they were in their teens now they'd probably identify like these kids as "other" in gender - I imagine I would have done too, (although quite exactly what I've no idea) and presumably must of us are fairly well adjusted and functional. They're doing it differently and they're doing it much more publicly than most of us because of social media and where society is at in general, but I don't see any reason to doubt got the future of many of the people quoted (the author from that tweet sounds vile and disturbed, absolutely).

@NeurotrashWarrior and @littlbrowndog I work with teens. I can assure you that these types of conversations and identities are absolutely alive at the moment.

If that vile apology for a human being did protect their tweets it didn't last very long as I've just seen their entire timeline, found that one, reported it and a few others and blocked. Don't know how much good it will do, but I had to try. I read once that Twitter's useless moderation system is largely automated and one of the things they look for is whether a person got blocked, so I always do it after reporting.

And yet almost all of us do, just not so much (noticeably) for our gender identities. Look at the AIBU board... lots of people seeking validation of their opinions.

Yes, we all like to have validation for our opinions. Do you seriously think any of these emotionally immature people (some in their 30s and 40s) ever consider that they might be the "unreasonable" ones? I believe they have cognitive dissonance, certainly, and they channel all of that into hating women who say no and nurturing their special victimhood.

It's like relationships and dating started in 2017. DH and I found each other via grunting and stereotypes.
Me in my flannel shirt and DH in a nail bar are an urban legend.

The 'find people without hate' advice - by which they actually means, find someone who will unquestioningly accept your own many rigid boundaries, some in very unusual places, while not having any of their own.

codependency on crack.

I feel like I'm on the cusp of understanding where these young people are coming from... to me it seems they want to reject gender stereotypes (good idea though seems to only apply to themselves and people who identify as queer/non-binary) and distilled to it's essence, they wish to be perceived as a person not defined by sex (also a good idea!) It's that they simply don't have the lived experience to understand that no matter how hard you try to change that sex; it exists and is perceived by everyone around you.

Many of them are teens, the vast majority of their life experiences have been as a child when they pretty much are nonbinary as children really aren't that different physiologically. The big pressure to conform really starts when you are a tween/teenager and puberty whacks you with hormone overload and your body becomes alien.

I honestly think if there had been this language to describe it, I'd have been a non-binary teen. It's adult life experience that's really rammed home to me that whilst I might reject feminine stereotypes - that won't stop others clearly knowing I'm female and the shit show that brings came anyway.

(good idea though seems to only apply to themselves and people who identify as queer/non-binary)

Yes. The rest of us are walking stereotypes.

We have to be, for their ideology to make sense.

Ok so the author is a bitch of the highest order. I still feel for the real people quoted unless she's made it all up.

Ereshkigal

I do see a lot of disturbing emotional immaturity and hatred of women in lots of the stuff discussed on this board. The author of the article's vile twitter being one horrific example. Do I see it in the people quoted in the article? No. Just a load of stuff that if written by and about regular men and women in regular heterosexual relationships, would be dull, twee and uncontroversial. Not all of it, there are some bits that I don't understand mixed in, like the one quoted in the thread title.

It's possible to feel for people while feeling that their belief system is fucked up and harmful. I do.

I'm not talking about the specific article per se. I'm talking about genderist ideology and what it's founded in. I don't think it's healthy.

And ‘aromantic

Essentially the person does not want a relationship. They are not interested in anyone in that way.

No wonder Chris Morris is having an extended break.

Why? Because they thought they were on a date and the other person didn't? Because they have no experience? I'm confused.

Given that this appears in the same publication that promotes anal sex to teenage girls, I can see why lots of them would be keen to hide behind a 'not me, I'm different' identity.

It does have an unfortunate echo of 'do it to Julia' though.

I think that erks me - the fact that I apparently don't "get it" or that I don't understand feeling like you don't fit the gender role your sex places you in. That I am "cisheteronormative" scum who has no perception of their situation.

Newsflash kids we DO get it

It's just that we old school feminists tried to break down the gender roles and stereotypes and you seem to have given up on that and just embracing them whilst creating the idea of a third way and trying to push basic biology out the window to fit that idea.

@wanderingcloud

Totally agree with you.

I can remember being a teen rejecting stereotypes and becoming a goth a bit of a shit one loving my "alternative" and "unique" identify. Except of course that I knew I was just identifying with a different stereotype, and it was very easy to do so because maybe 30% of people in my college were goth.

It does have an unfortunate echo of 'do it to Julia' though.

Absolutely. And many of these people trumpet that they are feminists. They do this not because they care about women and girls, but because it's just another "identity" they can have, and it's a useful vehicle for their worldview.

I've seen many of these people both male and female completely sabotage women's events and groups even when they include MTFs. They don't think that anything female should be associated with the word "woman".

No one else went out of the way to cosset the feelings of goths though did they?

I'm not talking about the specific article per se. I'm talking about genderist ideology and what it's founded in. I don't think it's healthy

Fair enough

Like you these articles bore me so I skimmed it too

I don’t see teens like this round where I live and I do sport with them and have them in my family

There is one we know but all agree he is just attention seeking and being mor3 special than everyone else
It’s just the usual teen stuff and angst
But when they do talk about non binary it is in a mocking jokey way

It’s ma’am is now a joke between us all now

It does feel like some of these people are marginalising themselves, rather than society marginalising them, IYSWIM. They're creating a situation where they have to check dates 'aren't transphobic' rather than just going on a date looking a bit androgynous and expecting people to damn well deal with it.

I mean, I have known, for the last 20 years, people who clearly didn't fit a gender binary and lived very happily but, especially with kids, it's become a bit of a martyrdom, and as people have said it seems sad that some feel that kindness, acceptance and respect are somehow 'queer' like they can't access that as hetero women.

Most well adjusted people are going to run a mile from people with this level of self absorption.