Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall

411 replies

Whatisthisfuckery · 21/02/2019 16:21

Just seen this on Twitter.

twitter.com/ruth_hunt/status/1098604129394585601?s=21

I’d like to think her successor will be less homophobic. We shall see, although I’m not holding out much hope.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
silentcrow · 23/02/2019 19:10

And also what's the board's role and position in all this?

It would be worth looking at these people and their links/past posts. A casual glance shows me the NSPCC, Amnesty, and "time spent in Vancouver", for example. I mean, it may all be completely innocent, who knows. The third sector is as incestuous as any other, with people hopping organisations constantly for perfectly good reasons. But as ever, we should follow the money and see what happens.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 23/02/2019 19:11

Commitment to integrate trans communities into our work....

Ffs, the trans ideology is actively homophobic and works against the right and acceptance of LGB people to same sex relationships. You cannot integrate homophobia into the LGB movement, you might as well say you're going to integrate a horse meat factory chain into your horse rescue work.

Hostile take over, colonisation, appropriation and 'change from the inside' and phrases like that would be appropriate. You have an organisation being abandoned by LGB funders in horror, while inside it, heterosexual men are calling themselves lesbians and abusing lesbian women who use the word or maintain their right to sexual preference excluding penises. It's abusive batshit.

Ruth was all for it being all about the abusive batshit. The charity are clearly committed to the continuation of abusive batshittery - and the returned 11% funding will come from a very different source to the funding they have lost. Its very positive that LGB people with money and profile are starting to stand up and say this is mad, and this movement is no friend to women or to LGB people.

CallMeSirShotsFired · 23/02/2019 20:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Courday · 23/02/2019 20:39

"Once LGBT as an acronym is associated with perverts, that's it"

Luckily (as has already been demonstrated) everyone ignores lesbians so we will escape most of the flack but gay men are particularly vulnerable to any backlash (and of course genuine transsexuals, some of whom I have grown to genuinely like during interaction on twitter)
Everyone groups LGBT together and the people leading any backlash are unlikely to differentiate between individual groups.
With a few honourable exceptions gay men should be ashamed of their silence over what has been going on.

ChattyLion · 23/02/2019 20:41

OK so that is clear then- the board is perfectly happy with the political principle that they have been promoting.
Meaning that unless the Chair publicly says otherwise, things will be moving in the exact same direction once there is a fresh new face in post. Sad

littlbrowndog · 23/02/2019 20:45

Jeez the hatred of hunt from the comments

Like a dam bursting

littlbrowndog · 23/02/2019 20:46

Yeah Courday could see that
Why is a lifestyle choice now grouped with LGB

HamiltonCork · 23/02/2019 21:02

Ruth Hunt will always be remembered for being a complete and utter Judas.

DoctorTwo · 24/02/2019 00:24

But as ever, we should follow the money and see what happens.

Yup, totally agree.

Weezol · 24/02/2019 00:59

Stonewall became trans-inclusive in 2015, after a six-month consultation with more than 700 trans people.

Were any LGB people consulted?

silentcrow · 24/02/2019 01:09

more than 700 trans people.

British trans people?

Some clarity would be lovely.

NopeNi · 24/02/2019 06:54

I can't see any comments, have they been turned off?

TimeLady · 24/02/2019 07:35

Just adding this for the record. We don't want the rest of the management/board of trustees at Stonewall to have their part in this overlooked, do we?

www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/who-we-are-1

Management:

Ruth Hunt
Helen Moulinos

Trustees:

Jan Gooding
Andrew Pakes
Meri Williams
Michele Oliver
Mohsin Zaidi
Ros Parker
Catherine Dixon
Simon Blake OBE
Sheldon Mills
Tim Toulmin

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 24/02/2019 08:15

Stonewall became trans-inclusive in 2015, after a six-month consultation with more than 700 trans people.

Charity “hey folks - how’s about our mega dosh charity shoves the lesbians aside and centres ourselves on you guys - and pushes it anyone who doesn’t think you are just super?”
The 700 “let us think about that...”

tirisfalpumpkin · 24/02/2019 08:23

Don’t know if this is a Twitter quirk or something more sinister. I usually browse logged out (as I’m TERFblocked). When looking at the thread logged out, I see lots of sensible clear-eyed and rather angry comments from lesbians, gay men and feminists about RH’s legacy.

When I log in, suddenly it’s pages of love and best wishes from her friends.

Is the algorithm identifying GC accounts and making sure they don’t see content they might agree with, perhaps so they feel more isolated?

I would like Stonewall to have the integrity to say that they are a T charity and not a LBG one any more. I am fed up of them sticking ‘and bisexuals’ onto everything when they haven’t done anything for us in years.

TinselAngel · 24/02/2019 08:52

I just tried that Pumpkin, and it's exactly the same for me. Weird.

nettie434 · 24/02/2019 08:56

Was reading the Martina thread that included a link to Janice Turner’s article yesterday (thanks igneococcus). There’s a sentence at the end abou Hunt resigning ‘in near despair’. I’d love to know more about that. Must look at the Stonewall annual accounts. Suspect that like many big charities it has grown more reliant on grants and corporate sponsorship than individual donations. If the Trustees think they can carry on training the police, writing toolkits etc, the next CEO will do more of the same. If that looks as if it is not viable, then it will change. Definitely agree with posters suggesting ‘follow the money’.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 24/02/2019 08:58

FloraFox that was my first thought upon hearing the news about Hunt's resignation, would Julie now say what it was?

Julie did say something once about her having a lunch with Ruth Hunt where Ruth told her she was very aware of the "Trans Issue" and what affect that would have on lesbians and she wasn't going to let that happen. I don't know if that's what Julie Bindel is referring to, or if there is more.

nettie434 · 24/02/2019 09:16

Julie has tweeted this and a couple of other tweeters say similar:
twitter.com/bindelj/status/1047931885379354625?s=21

Put it this way, she was talking about letting 'them' form a separate group from Stonewall with some funding and guidance. She made it clear (or lied, rather) that there was to be no T in Stonewall.....

EmpressAdultHumanFemale · 24/02/2019 09:20

Ruth Hunt is a traitor. She sold her soul & her integrity and I’d say she’s done lesbians more harm than Margaret Thatcher ever did. At least everyone knew Thatcher was the enemy. Hunt attacked us from within.

hackmum · 24/02/2019 09:26

Fascinating to read the Pink News comments. Very heartening to see how pissed off lesbians and (one presumes) gay men are about Stonewall’s direction under Hunt.

EweSurname · 24/02/2019 09:31

How weird - I get two very different views of the thread too, depending on whether I’m logged in or not. And people that I follow are more prominent when I’m not logged in, which seems completely backwards

ChattyLion · 24/02/2019 11:10

Stonewall should set aside money from their huge budgets for the current and future needs of detranisiitoned people. Also they should encourage this in the many other countries they are now working in.
Also they should fund independent research into detransitioned people’s needs now. Then they should publicise the findings widely, including in those other countries they are working in, and start funding specialised service provision and support accordingly.

None of this is antithetical to Stonewall’s clearly heartfelt support of trans people and endlessly restated commitment to their needs- in fact it should be seen as absolutely part of their support of trans people.

The detransitioned group in the UK can only grow (as more people, mostly women are transitioning) and I have seen stats on FWR threads that more people will not persist with their new gender identity, than will continue with it after puberty. (Sorry, I don’t have the ref for that). But regardless of the exact proportions clearly there will be a growing number of people in this category.

Hence the responsible healthcare approach is to provide non-politicised clinically-specialised mental health support for gender dysphoria (do Stonewall campaign for this care or support it- if so, I’ve not really noticed that?) but always to take a very cautious ‘watch and wait’ approach to moving further to any permanent physical interventions like puberty blockers, hormones, surgery. Especially for under 18s.

Everyone (policy makers and particularly influential advocacy organisations like Stonewall) should be concerned about where this growing group of detranisitioned people will get their needs met from, especially as the deliberately polarised, highly-politicised ‘ideologically pure’ current approach to promoting trans identity only in a positive, ‘affirming’ way, suspending the normal rules of safeguarding, medical ethics, evidence based medicine, essentially advocating politically as a matter of belief ‘#nodebate’ with anyone with a different perspective.

This means that alternative views including those of detransitioned people themselves may be suppressed and unheard, advocacy for their care needs is not done, and those who do detransition are either rejected by or feel very isolated from the trans community and the advocacy groups around it, because their experience is apparently so politically taboo to voice, making them especially unsupported and vulnerable.

So where will their needs be met from?

While gender critical women have always said that transmen are welcome at any stage in their journey to talk and have as much right to women’s spaces etc as any other woman, and have never actually ‘left’ the community of women... this cannot be a problem for gender critical people to solve.

Regarding actually supporting the specific mental health and health needs of detransitioned people, or providing organised peer-to-peer access within the community of detransitioned people, this is a specific area of expertise.

Clearly gender critical women advocating for women’s rights within this clash of rights, have no budgets. As political advocates gender critical women do not run peer support organisations for this group and aren’t acting as service providers to communities or mental or medical health experts by virtue of setting out gender critical thinking.

This expertise and money for solutions has to come from the trans lobby itself. The detransitioned community’s urgent and complex set of mental and physical health needs, which can in some cases be inherently arising as a result of the advocacy of the trans lobby, needs to be talked about openly by everyone and supported by specialists.

Where is the welcoming support and specialised services for female and male detransitioned people? Note- this will likely require some separated single-sex services for natal men and women because they will have very different needs.

This is because male and female biology are different and society’s gendered expectations will impact them differently as detranisitoned people who are seeking to build a life in their original birth sex, but still possibly dealing with permanent issues arising from the transitioned period, which affect their everyday. Plus the possibility of still dealing with gender dysphoria that is still being experienced but without the belief being held out any more that transition is a good solution in their own individual case. A very tough position to be in, clearly.

Responsible advocates should seek more research on this, plan services for this need and fund these.

Seeing stonewall’s huge bank balance on this thread, it feels to me that this should be a key part of the pitch of an incoming CEO for a future work plan for the charity.

And regardless of whether the next CEO candidates suggest it or not, it should absolutely be the new direction of travel insisted on very publicly by the Trustees of Stonewall.

RedToothBrush · 24/02/2019 11:18

Stonewall should set aside money from their huge budgets for when they get their arses sued off.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 24/02/2019 11:18

Growing up with a gay sister I fought the corner fiercely growing up.

Now I am ready to vomit every time I see a stupid bloody uniform rainbow or a prepubescent child (or their idiot mothers - as it seems to be mostly the idiot mothers) witter on about them being trans or bi or gender-sodding-neutral.