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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall

411 replies

Whatisthisfuckery · 21/02/2019 16:21

Just seen this on Twitter.

twitter.com/ruth_hunt/status/1098604129394585601?s=21

I’d like to think her successor will be less homophobic. We shall see, although I’m not holding out much hope.

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EweSurname · 25/02/2019 06:49

Stonewall pioneer criticises its transgender ‘extremism’

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/stonewall-pioneer-criticises-its-transgender-extremism-pwc696ml5

One of the founders of Stonewall has condemned its “extreme” position on transgender rights after its chief executive announced she was stepping down.

Simon Fanshawe, 62, one of the original 14 trustees in 1989 alongside Sir Ian McKellen, called on the organisation to listen to concerns about its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

TimeLady · 25/02/2019 07:26

Times share token, if needed

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-pioneer-criticises-its-transgender-extremism-pwc696ml5?shareToken=963b7a076613075adfee64ce81a63adb

Two particularly salient points:

Simon Fanshawe says: “When we said we wanted to live as gay people free and equal under the law, we didn’t want to tell heterosexuals that they were not allowed to do what they did or change their view of what being heterosexual was. We didn’t go round telling people they were homophobic.”

Ruth Hunt, 38, has announced she is handing over leadership of Stonewall after five years. During her tenure, trans rights have shifted to the top of its agenda. Sceptics claim this is an expedient, if unpopular, move to maintain funding after same-sex marriage was granted in 2013. “Hunt saw that the numbers of people identifying as transgender were rising and spotted an opportunity,” Jo Bartosch, of the women’s group Critical Sisters, said.

Oh, it's all going to come out now, isn't it? Just what we've been saying here.

FemalePersonator · 25/02/2019 07:31

Maybe Mr Watson is hoping to apply for CEO Stonewall?

chinny reckon

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 07:47

illuminating 2014 Guardian interview by Decca Aitkenhead:
'Stonewall's Ruth Hunt: ‘I’m not interested in being the thought police’

Since she took over at the gay rights charity, Ruth Hunt has received fierce criticism for being too timid. She talks about life in the the era of gesture politics, the footballers who ask for her help and the battles she still wants to win'
(extract)
"Whatever the public narrative that’s now in place suggests, she says, such experiences remain commonplace. There is more to be done, she goes on, because anti-gay legislation was only ever part of the problem. For many gay people who live far from Soho, or any other gay scene, it’s others’ homophobic attitudes that blight their daily lives. “Those people would never say they were equal, or that everything’s great, no.” But attitudes and emotions cannot be legally defined and legislated against – so this week Stonewall launched a new “No Bystanders” campaign, urging not just schoolchildren but all of us to challenge or report any homophobic abuse or insulting language.

On the face of it, the campaign is blamelessly admirable. “It’s about taking personal responsibility to create a kinder environment in which we can all exist.” But it comes dangerously close, I suggest, to policing people’s private thoughts and feelings.

“I’ve got no problem with how people feel, they can feel how they want,” Hunt insists. “It’s how people act that I’m desperately concerned about. I am not interested in being the thought police.” (continues)

Social norms will always be more powerful than laws, and gay people in remote communities are never going to enjoy the same freedoms taken for granted in places such as central London until attitudes shift as radically as the law has. So actually, Stonewall is to some extent acting as the thought police, isn’t it? “Stonewall’s position isn’t about insisting that people think differently in a forced way. It’s about helping people to change how they think about things.”

It’s an important but subtle distinction. Unfortunately, Hunt has discovered from bitter experience that nuance does not translate well in an age of social media." (continues)

The instant liberal consensus was that Stonewall must sign up at once to a boycott of the hotel chain. Hunt’s refusal provoked the Twittersphere into such a fury that “it very nearly cost me my job. I got annihilated. The level of personal abuse was off the scale, and I wasn’t ready for it, or mentally equipped. ‘Ruth Hunt with her designer glasses, who does she think she is?’ It was really, really awful.”

Stonewall will not use the Dorchester in future, she says firmly, “because our supporters have made it very clear that they don’t want us to”. But despite her glum certainty that any new attempt now to explain her position will be futile, and only invite fresh vitriol, she still wants to try. Because, she explains, she is fed up with campaigners’ blind enthusiasm for “gesture politics which just make people feel better, but achieve nothing” (continues)

At Stonewall, Hunt has faced “social media comments saying a lesbian cannot represent gay people”. When I ask if misogyny among gay men concerns her, her careful answer suggests both that it does, and that she is anxious not to give her gay male critics a new excuse to attack her.

“I think misogyny is far more rampant in society than we give it credit for,” she says. “Across all sorts of walks of life, both gay men and straight men. It’s naive to think that because a man is gay he is less or more likely to be sexist.”

It’s a typically calibrated answer. Rather frustratingly, one legacy of that Dorchester row is a wary reluctance to say anything very controversial. For example, when I suggest that we might be better off without faith schools, given the doctrinal homophobia, her face tightens into a plastic smile. “It’s not for Stonewall to say. We work with whatever exists.” Whenever she says anything remotely bold, she panics about what the Stonewall board will say. Which is probably prudent, but makes me rather wish we’d met before she got the job." (continues)

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2014/nov/21/ruth-hunt-stonewall-interview-not-interested-in-being-thought-police

dianebrewster · 25/02/2019 07:49

I'm a huge Simon Fanshawe fan, he used to be chair of Council at Sussex Uni when I worked there. He was a consistent and sane voice of reason during internal politicking there. He looks at issues and sees the consequences of courses of action. He's never nasty, always a voice of reason calling for thoughtful dialogue..

He started out in this debate, months ago, by very gently pointing out to Stonewall that they should be facilitating dialogue, not closing it down. They really should have listed to him.

RedToothBrush · 25/02/2019 07:55

Like the people who aren't currently tweeting (or retweeting) in support of 11-year-old Desmond's right to dance for money in gay bars?

Yes that deafing silence.

When's the Olympics again?
I'm looking forward to that particular elephant in the room.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 08:23

from The Times article,
Simon Fanshawe, 62, one of the original 14 trustees in 1989 alongside Sir Ian McKellen, called on the organisation to listen to concerns about its campaign to amend the Gender Recognition Act.

Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart's close friendship is well recognised.

recent Guardian interview with Patrick Stewart:
'Domestic violence blighted my home. That's why I support Refuge'
(Extract)
"I grew up in a home darkened by domestic violence – which I wrote about two years ago. My father was an angry and unhappy man who was not able to control his emotions, or his hands. I witnessed violence against my mother and felt powerless to stop it. When Refuge, the national domestic violence charity, asked me to become a patron, I accepted without hesitation. I accepted for my mother. As a child, there was little I could do to help her. But now I can give support and encouragement to women who live in the same sort of fear that she did." (continues)
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/feb/05/domestic-violence-refuge-government-cuts

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:00

Mr Watson swooping in to save the day

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:09

Incidentally, Mr Watson, lead LGBT. advisor to labour, ran a Twitter poll on whether graham lineham was a bigot and on the back of that, has sent this to glinner

Ruth Hunt is leaving Stonewall
CallMeSirShotsFired · 25/02/2019 10:16

So a Twitter poll is now the arbiter of justice in his tiny fevered mind?

And what "danger" exactly are perfectly normal, GNC kids in (I refuse to call children transgender)?

I would suggest that is one of those "leaks" where the author inadvertently speaks their own feelings and tries to land it on someone else. We all know where the real danger is; and it ain't an Irishman on social media.

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 10:20

It seems rather naive and childish.
I think Anthony Watson commented that he had been bullied previously.

Mr Watson also seems also not to understand Safeguarding along with influential TRAs such as Aimee Challenor, Susie Green, Tara Hewitt, Jane Fae, Stephen Whittle etc

There is a systemic failure to uderstand Safeguarding frameworks intended to protect children and vulnerable adults amongst trans/queer activism.

CaptainKirksSpookyghost · 25/02/2019 10:33

There is a systemic failure to uderstand Safeguarding frameworks

It's almost like it's deliberate isn't it.

FemalePersonator · 25/02/2019 10:38

Isn't it odd how men set themselves up as arbiters of issues that affect women?

FemalePersonator · 25/02/2019 10:39

It's almost like it's deliberate isn't it.

It's almost like there's a benefit in it for them. I mean, why would men with paraphilias want to reduce safeguards involving children?

ponders

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 10:47

Owen Jones flagged the poll up to his followers

Owen Jones 🌹
‏*@OwenJones84*
Feb 24
More Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted Anthony Watson
A gay man who knows what it's like to be hated by the media, who knows what it's like to fear being abused in the street, is being threatened with legal action - because he called out a straight guy waging a one-man campaign against trans people. Show solidarity: vote and share.

Also:

Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted

Patrick Strudwick
‏*@PatrickStrud*
Any gay person thinking they can afford to sit out the “debates” happening over trans people, know this: transphobes aren’t just coming for trans rights, they’re now coming for everything LGBT. They want to rip us apart. Divide. Override.
We have one option: to resist. Together.

And

Graham Linehan
‏*@Glinner*
Call me a bigot as much as you want @Jan_Gooding I think most can see the damage your ideology does to gay people. History will not be kind to you.

Owen Jones 🌹 Retweeted

Louis Staples
@LouisStaples
as someone with a masters degree in queer history i feel reasonably qualified to suggest that history will be much kinder to the lesbian chair of britain's largest LGBT charity than graham linehan, one of the most odious men on this hell site

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/02/2019 10:52

masters degree in queer history a what now? 😳😂🤪🤪🤪

Is that a real degree? As someone with an arts degree I’ll start...

“Does your mortar board come with with mickey mouse ears?”
“Do they teach you how to ask ‘do you want fries with that’”
“Bwahahahahaha, what a joke course”

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 10:53

There seems to be a lot of angry gay men often with misogynistic atitudes very invested in visbibly protecting trans ideology.

The Stonewall ally program has been very effective.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/02/2019 10:54

Hmmmm I have found that gay men tend not to really like lesbians all that much (and believe that they don’t like them first, so they won’t like them back). Could this be a reason?

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 10:58

as someone with a masters degree in queer history i feel reasonably qualified to suggest that history will be much kinder to the lesbian chair of britain's largest LGBT charity than graham linehan, one of the most odious men on this hell site

Queer theory might encourage such a belief and embolden students to claim their beliefs as fact.
But... nope.

OvaHere · 25/02/2019 11:00

I'm going to assume for many gay men the defence comes from a very visceral place recalling how they have been treated in the past.

I think that's understandable but those feelings are blinding them from some of the unpleasant truths that unpin what is happening due to trans ideology. It's going to be a shock to the system when history does not look kindly on those who pushed unthinkable medical harm on young bodies.

OvaHere · 25/02/2019 11:01

*underpin

R0wantrees · 25/02/2019 11:04

I'm going to assume for many gay men the defence comes from a very visceral place recalling how they have been treated in the past.

Its more likely a reaction rather than recall as the site of bullying is unlikely to be with women, especially GNC and lesbians.

That some people who are bullied become bullies is a recognised pattern.

BigGoat · 25/02/2019 11:20

Well it seems that some of those who have intentionally chosen to lower safeguarding criteria under the false premise of trans rights are in retreat.

Lets not kid ourselves that they have gone away for good though.

Huge thanks to you all for fighting the good fight.

FemalePersonator · 25/02/2019 11:24

Lets not kid ourselves that they have gone away for good though.

True. They are just re-grouping and will come back. But they will be met with resistance.