#TeamNavratilova is gathering pace!

[SpeakUpXXWomen]

Firing Martina from Allies is working out to be an own goal as more people stand up and speak out on this.

twitter.com/hashtag/TeamNavratilova?src=hash

We know how twitter works in regards to women speaking out so perhaps this thread could be a place to gather excellent quotes and pictures for people to spread across other platforms and show that Martina's views are shared not by a trickle of support but a tidal wave.

I feel in need of a very nice #TeamNavratilova picture to put on my fbook, any social media gurus around to advise?

The only people who stand to gain by denigrating Debbie Hayton or any TW questioning transideology are TRAs.

I've every right to question the inclusion of someone speaking about a gender critical view of womens sport when Debbie has no experience of either.

I hear you, Zutt. It's about the failure of the media to include women in these discussions. That's why people are now asking where are the feminists.
Stephen Nolan discussed the topic with two trans people after McKinnon managed to get Nic Williams no-platformed. Channel 5 discussed the topic with three trans people.
It's ridiculous.

When the IOC made their decisions on transgender athletes back in 2015, the committee comprised of 14 men, 4 women, 1 transwoman and 1 woman who had been banned from athletics because they were XY chromosone.
That is not representative of society.

As ever, sunlight is by far the best tactic.

Indeed. And spotlights and torches.

I'm not sure men are going to support this necessarily. They care about sport. But not sure they care about women's sports enough. Attendance, money, tv and radio scheduling shows that. After all, if a load of men start saying they are women to succeed in that category of sport, it's only going to fuck up women's sport. Men's sport won't be blemished.

Long story short:- men watch men play sport.

I agree that most men probably won't care about women in sport any more than they care about other women. Yes, they will probably see that it is unfair, but I'm not sure they'd care enough to actually do anything. Then you've got the men who think women should have to compete against men because women are rubbish and if they want equality blah blah.

There are some men who are interested in all sport, but most men (and indeed women) who like sport are only thinking of men's sport. Hardly anybody even says 'men's sport' (apart from feminists making a point) because that is the default.

And there are people who don't care about sport who will see this all as entirely trivial. I don't really care about sport that much, but I do care about women and I care about their options being limited in terms of careers or leisure activities solely on the basis of their sex. It's outrageously unfair, but you have to care about women to see it as a big deal.

I fear there are some men who'll only complain if there are TW in beach volleyball teams.

good article here with #TeamNavratilova comments

www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1232514/pg1

Chris Evert reckons there are "solid arguments on both sides". Feckin' coward.

I think he has already been mentioned but here is one guy who is not sitting on the fence!

:twitter.com/CoachFausett

The views of male commentators in, say, cricket would be interesting.
Watching Sky's coverage of women's cricket the blokes clearly take it seriously and it gets good coverage. These guys see the difference and clearly value both equally.

If some of the high profile commentators such as Nasser Hussein, Michael Atherton, David Lloyd, Michael Holding etc. were to come out on Martina's side that would carry a lot of weight.

Likewise the commentators on women's rugby, for example, which also gets good airtime on Sky.

twitter.com/MenAtWorkOrg/status/1098629780629524480

Men At Work
‏ @MenAtWorkOrg

Men At Work Retweeted PinkNews

When I see the misogynists like @PinkNews use the word ‘educate’ in contexts like this I think of a cross between #doloresumbridge & #torquemada

#menformartina
#fairplayforwomen
#iStandWithMartina

When I see the misogynists like @PinkNews use the word ‘educate’ in contexts like this I think of a cross between #doloresumbridge & #torquemada

I think of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge.

Then there are always the lovely gulags that had book clubs and tea parties.

I didn't know about men at work, sound like good people to me.

Working with men & boys to promote consciously respectful living. Working to end violence against women & girls, other men & ourselves.

They thanked Marina in another tweet.

I have to say this all lifts the spirits, so glad to see the conversation picking up the pace amongst men as well as women.

Khmer Rouge is exactly right.
That Men At Work account looks great, props to them.

Excellent article from Ella Whelan at Spiked here

www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/21/in-defence-of-martina-navratilova/

It seems to me (and many others) that the questions she raised are eminently sensible. Why would we bother dividing sport into gendered categories if we didn’t appreciate that men’s and women’s bodies are different?

and the #TeamNavratilova comments

twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1098658654922915840

Oh and some more here

twitter.com/spikedonline/status/1098613487100719104

What would be the point for any woman to put in all the hard graft to try to get to the top of their sport only to find themselves beaten easily by an average man?

Men at Work deserve some support I think. Lots of women rising up today on Twitter. Not so many men sadly, and those that have seem bewildered that ‘no feminists’ are kicking up a fuss. It really doesn’t occur to some men that women don’t get airtime does it?!

Why would we bother dividing sport into gendered categories if we didn’t appreciate that men’s and women’s bodies are different?

This is the question for all of the sporting bodies to answer, who think that self ID works fairly in sex-specific sporting competitions.

HT to Freespeecher for pointing out the useful concept of Chesterton’s Fence: if someone wants you to change a policy you should ask them to before you change it, to set out clearly why it’s been put there in the first place.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3508086-GRA-and-Labour-Party

twitter.com/667ed/status/1098316538816413696

Lots of men getting involved.

This is a very entertaining thread wondering if McKinnon is trying to peak trans the world on purpose. We are being heard!

twitter.com/FeministRoar/status/1097286293455888384

Waiting for Kirkups latest gem to show up now

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2019/02/21/martina-navratilova-serving-sense-gender/

The other thing that doesn’t seem to have been explicitly mentioned - tennis is one of the few sports where men and women play in mixed teams against each other at the elite level.

I don’t know how much time Martina spent playing mixed doubles but I’m sure she she spent some. She knows what it is like to play against elite mixed doubles men and knows the differences and also the way the mixed doubles game is different from single sex doubles, in order to enable it to be a fair, interesting and watchable game.

There are very few other sports that people can play as adults in mixed games - they should be listening to the people that know through experience what it is like and how, if you are a woman, playing against a transwoman is like playing against a man not a woman.

Lot of spanish chat going on, any translators willing to tell us what the gist is?

twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=martina%20navratilova&l=es&src=typd

My twitter translates (dodgy translation though ). As far as I can see, v supportive of Martina.

"Martina Navratilova has common sense"

"Even Martina Navratilova , who does not need any presentation, says it's unfair that a man born, who is now a computer woman against women, this is not homophobia is genetic"

"It's all very well for a champion like Martina Navratilova to speak , but anyone with a little common sense could have said exactly the same thing."

And from "Vox":

"Today we have learned the homosexual tennis player, Martina Navratilova has been expelled from the LGTB lobby when questioning the gender ideology."
and:
"Legendary tennis player Martina Navratilova has been expelled from the LGBT lobby for saying the obvious that a man who feels like a woman should not participate in women's tournaments. The statement that we vetoed yesterday in the Senate asked that they could. In VOX we are with common sense."

Odd understanding of feminism though:

"The feminist lobby has expelled Martina Navratilova for saying that a trans woman was a man before she could not compete with women because she has more physical strength and that gives her an advantage"

"The same thing I say to you lesbofoba and misogina outside feminism. Ps: Martina Navratilova has little to do with feminism, I'm talking about sports and women's rights."

Two things to say about those tweets:

Feminists didn't expel Martina - the LGBT group Athlete Ally did.

And feminism is women's rights!

Their ghasts are flabbered!

It's hotting up, there are about 500 posts since I last looked so may not get through all before bedtime, will scan for highlights