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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Martina Navratilova removed from Athlete Ally Advisory board.

152 replies

Blueblueyellow · 19/02/2019 23:10

Taken from their website:
"Our mission is to end the rampant homophobia and transphobia in sport and to activate the athletic community to exercise their leadership to champion LGBTQ equality".
And surprise, Rachel Mckinnon is an ambassador.
www.athleteally.org/navratilovas-statements-transphobic-counter-to-our-work-vision/

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12
Lottapianos · 20/02/2019 08:28

Dear god, poor Martina. This is how you get treated for telling the truth. This and a load of shit stirring about being sacked by the BBC. I hope she's doing ok and knows just how many people are on her side

butteryellow · 20/02/2019 08:29

There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman

I would laugh, but they're being serious.

And yes, RM is a professional lier - thesis:
Reasonable Assertions: On Norms of Assertion and Why You Don't Need to Know What You're Talking About

and check out the list of papers under review - web.archive.org/web/20181031024440/www.rachelmckinnon.com/philosophy_research.html

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/02/2019 08:33

'There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman."

So why do we have women’s sports?'

Ah that's easy
A chap was apparently explaining this to Sharon Davies on the radio the other day.

It's because we're lazy and don't try hard enough. If we put the work it's we could compete against and beat men.

There's probably something in there as well around claiming its benevolent sexism because women are seen as weak, this argument has been used about mixed sex toilets. Apparently single sex ones are sexist as they support the idea women are fragile.

These men are total wankers and I despair for the women who support them.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 20/02/2019 08:34

Also, fucking lesbians eh?

They've always been trouble.

First they won't fuck dick
Then they won't centre men
Go around having opinions

They're the literal worst.

FamilyOfAliens · 20/02/2019 08:34

Does anyone know of a letter of support for Martina that we could sign?

She is strong, but I’m worried she’s going to be bullied into retracting, like so many others before her.

andyoldlabour · 20/02/2019 08:35

I don't know how influential Athlete Ally is, but they are heavily pro transgender and do not agree with testosterone testing.
They shouldn't in my opinion be let anywhere near sports.

www.athleteally.org/athlete-ally-responds-iaaf-delay-testosterone-ruling/

SuperLoudPoppingAction · 20/02/2019 08:35

Gosh that thesis is a valuable insight into mansplaining

youllhavehadyourtea · 20/02/2019 08:37

Rachel 'Why YouDon't Need to Know What You're Talking About' McKinnon, admirably talks the talk and demonstrates the tenet of their own thesis.

In a way this is remarkably admirable, and I think full recognition of this philosophy should be acknowkeged - and henceforth the author should be automatically credited with the title of their work each time their name is mentioned.

e.g. Rachel 'Why YouDon't Need to Know What You're Talking About' McKinnon.

Needmoresleep · 20/02/2019 08:38

Things about to get really nuts, women. Buckle up.

I think so. I think it will be about Tokyo 2020 Olympics. I think, as we have seen in other fields, that people hoped changes would be made before anyone noticed. Acceptance of trans Olympic champions would be a huge step. However unhappy other althletes, women, and non Western cultures felt. Throw in commercial interests, intersex questions, and the ride will get rough.

Stay in there Martina. One small but scary aspect is that it will legitimise those drivers that meant most of the Iranian ladies football team are transwomen.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 08:45

The Guardian described it as overblown feminist dystopia but it's looking more real everyday

Ive read vox and i agree with the silencing bit

How come when its a dystopian novel thats ok

But a feminist dystopia?? Overblown

And i didn't think it was that great a book but it certainly wasnt overblown! You'd think people that write for a living would be good with words...and definitions

Having said that...goodness knows what overblown means today in our ever changing words world

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 20/02/2019 08:48

Forgot my hastag

#teammartina

HandsOffMyRights · 20/02/2019 08:58

McKinnon is also connected to this organisation.

And what RM demands, RM gets.

glitterbiscuits · 20/02/2019 08:59

Viva Martina!Thanks

TurboTeddy · 20/02/2019 09:04

Rufus agree it wasn't a great book but the theme of silencing women felt very relevant.

The AAAB have sent a clear message that they're more influenced by cheats than champions.

Huge thanks to Martina for sticking her head above the parapet and doing it with such dignity despite the appalling treatment she has received.

VickyEadie · 20/02/2019 09:05

There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman.

That must mean, therefore, that there is "no evidence at all" that the average man is any bigger, stronger or faster than the average woman.

Which is complete bollocks.

apparentlyso · 20/02/2019 09:06

Martina, you are a hero!

VickyEadie · 20/02/2019 09:09

Given the absolute shite this organisation is peddling, I'm surprised Martina had anything to do with them in the first place.

Kettleon80 · 20/02/2019 09:09

A fucking nobody athlete gets praise, attention and respect lavished all over HIM and Martina Navratilova gets ignored, kicked out of organisations and criticised.

Yep. Sounds right.

And chuck me off Mumsnet for 'Misgendering' I really couldn't give two shits about these bullying misogynistic bastards.

Iused2BanOptimist · 20/02/2019 09:10

Lottapianos

Has Martina been sacked by the BBC?
Or is it just that certain people are calling for this?
I'm sure she will find other work she wants to do so I don't suppose it will be any loss to her.

Datun · 20/02/2019 09:12

80sMum

What does cisgender mean, by the way? I've never heard that term before

Okay, loosely, and it has to be loose, because one thing you will find is that the goalposts change all the damn time, cis means on the same side as in Latin (apparently).

The original explanation was that it meant if you were born a woman, and you accepted your gender, it meant you were cis. And was supposed to basically be the opposite of trans.

But feminists pointed out that no feminist accept their gender, as gender just means set of stereotypes and expectations assigned to women and generally disadvantaging them.

(Not to mention the bloody damn cheek of being defined as a 'not' a man who identifies as a woman.)

So lately trans activists have decided that it's not about aligning yourself with your gender after all, it's about knowing that you are a woman in a woman's body. As opposed to transwoman, who know they are a woman, but have a male body by mistake.

It's a rampant determination to give women a name other than woman. In order to make two subsets out of the noun 'woman'. One subset called trans and one subset called cis.

You will hear things like 'trans woman' is like black women, like red haired woman, like cis woman.

Most women reject it out of hand, as they are buggered if they're going to be redefined in order to allow men to be a subcategory. Or to be defined as something they're not. Particularly in relation to misogynistic men!

That is one of the reasons the term is actually banned on this site. Mumsnet caved to pressure to ban certain terms that transwomen didn't like, but then neatly scooped up a few terms that women didn't like either (cis, terf), much to the out rage of transactivists.

The fact that you don't know the term suggests to me that you are probs new to the debate. Which is fantastic. It means that Martina's disgraceful treatment is opening the eyes of more people.

Italiangreyhound · 20/02/2019 09:14

How is big sport funded? Is it by ticket sales or sponsorship?

My guess is the latter.

I wonder when sponsors are going to pull out?

It should be so very clear it is unfair for women to be forced to compete against male bodied athletes who gave a clear advantage.

It's also very grim, to me, that they want to compete with this unfair advantage.

SparkiePolastri · 20/02/2019 09:15

How is this photo not evidence that transwomen are indeed bigger, stronger, and faster than women?

Rachel is bigger, and is standing on the podium in first place - so is faster and stronger.

Confused
Martina Navratilova removed from Athlete Ally Advisory board.
MillytantForceit · 20/02/2019 09:17

When our cat had two kittens we also had a cairn terrier. The cats loved to play with the dog, and one of them took to holding bones between his paws and growling at you if you came too close.

He was a transdog. His brother remained a ciscat.

GerryblewuptheER · 20/02/2019 09:27

Then why do they get from placing no where to winning if theres no advantage?

Martina Flowers

Lougle · 20/02/2019 09:28

There is no evidence at all that the average trans woman is any bigger, stronger, or faster than the average cisgender woman.

Martina Navratilova removed from Athlete Ally Advisory board.
Martina Navratilova removed from Athlete Ally Advisory board.