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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

FPFW disinvited from discussing Martina's comments on 5Live

294 replies

TransposersArePosers · 18/02/2019 11:00

Nicola WIlliams was invited to speak about Martina's comments along with RM. This on the FPFW facebook page

We were then disinvited after Rachel McKinnon publicly refused to participate if we were included. We discussed this decision with editor Philo Holland explaining how this is a frequently used tactic to silencing opposing views. It contravenes BBC editorial guidelines to allow a guest to veto the appearance of another

So the BBC being biased again, what a surprise. And a GC voice being no platformed. Why is it that these individuals are frightened to go up against the common sense facts??

OP posts:
teawamutu · 25/02/2019 14:02

Stephen Nolan has therefore admitted the original response was a lie.

Popchyk · 25/02/2019 14:10

It seemed to me that Stephen Nolan went out of his way several times to state that McKinnon refused to debate with Nic Williams on the initial show.

I imagine that hosts of radio programmes aren't happy when guests try to veto other guests. And the producers just cave in to the demand.

I think Nolan was making a statement. Not to the audience, but to the BBC execs.

Datun · 25/02/2019 14:13

McKinnon is in full misogyny meltdown on Twitter. I'm not on Twitter, and it's difficult to even read, even secondhand.

nauticant · 25/02/2019 14:22

If McKinnon spent more time training and less time having meltdowns on twitter they might end up being good enough to compete against men.

EweSurname · 25/02/2019 14:30

Lols

Dr. Rachel McKinnon
@rachelvmckinnon
Abigail Shrier is telling on herself as a transmisogynistic hack

According to her, trans men who compete in sport are 'brave'

But trans women who compete in sport are cheating and "choose their competition based on whom they can beat."

Yeah that's not a double standard at all!

Why. Do. We. Segregate. Sport. In. The. First. Place.

And if you think there's no difference between men and women, why are you trying to compete with the women?

CallingDannyBoy · 25/02/2019 14:30

Yes I thought beach volleyball would really bring it home to a lot of sports enthusiasts

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 25/02/2019 14:32

Was McKinnon asked if she sees women as people who should have their own rights, for example? Asked if they understand that transwomen have male bodies still?

This question is never asked and it should be. Come on journalists!

Iused2BanOptimist · 25/02/2019 14:37

Nauticant. Quite so. Grin

NotTerfNorCis · 25/02/2019 14:38

McKinnon planning to compete in Manchester this October.

twitter.com/rachelvmckinnon/status/1099880310206910464?s=19

Iused2BanOptimist · 25/02/2019 14:40

I don't believe McKinnon will compete in UK.
A less than enthusiastic audience coupled with searching tv interviews and robust debate ? Not Rachel's style. Wink

Iused2BanOptimist · 25/02/2019 14:41

I wouldn't be surprised by a last minute change of plan.

Iused2BanOptimist · 25/02/2019 14:56

BTW Nic if you're reading. Well made point regarding the rule change of 2015 & pointing out that prior to that full surgical reassignment was required so small numbers and no obvious winners.

Rachel was on a programme in USA stating that trans woman have been competing since 2003 or whenever that rule dates from and there hasn't been a single trans Olympic medalist so what are we all complaining about. No wonder Rachel won't debate with Nic. Wink

Bittermints · 25/02/2019 17:25

McKinnon's world title is in a very specific age range, isn't it? Does anyone who knows something about cycling comment on how likely it is that an older male-bodied cyclist would beat someone like Victoria Pendleton or Laura Kenney?

Popchyk · 05/03/2019 14:48

Just got my second response:

"Guests do not have the power to veto another guest’s appearance. We had invited Nicola Williams to appear on the 17th February and it was her decision to re-schedule to the following week on 24th February".

That is completely untrue. Blatant lies.

SomeEnchantedEaring · 05/03/2019 16:53

My second reply was identical. No reference to the other points I made. They apparently don't care. It really saddens me because I used to be such a strong supporter of the BBC.

Popchyk · 05/03/2019 17:00

I will escalate it to the Executive Complaints Unit (ECU), which is stage 2 of the BBC complaints process.

If no joy there (and let's face it, there won't be), then Ofcom.

I will make mention of Stephen Nolan (the host) repeatedly stating on his show the following week that McKinnon refused to debate with Nic.

Which is an odd thing to state since the BBC is adamant that Nic was never asked to debate with McKinnon.

Popchyk · 24/04/2019 16:38

They have upheld my complaint.

"You are correct in thinking that the invitation to Dr Williams was withdrawn after Rachel McKinnon had made that a condition of her own participation. While it’s not the case that the BBC allows contributors the right of veto, contributors do sometimes make conditions, and programme-makers then have to decide what course of action will best serve the audience. Because the starting point for the item was Martina Navratilova’s article, and because that article had referred particularly to Ms McKinnon, the programme-makers judged that her participation would add more to listeners’ understanding of the topic than Dr Williams’, but the decision was made with the intention of ensuring that listeners also had an opportunity of hearing Dr Williams’ views, preferably within the same programme. Dr Williams was then invited to be interviewed later in the programme, and accepted. She subsequently changed her mind, but by that time the discussion with Ms McKinnon and the other participant, Charlie Martin, had already been recorded. I think it’s worth bearing in mind that it was recorded in the expectation that there would be a balancing view later in the programme.

Having said that, though, I would agree with you that there should nevertheless have been an element of challenge to the views expressed by Ms McKinnon and Ms Martin (as there was in the interview with Dr Williams in the 24 February edition of the programme), and that it was missing from the item as broadcast. I’m therefore upholding your complaint on that basis".

So FiveLive never allow a contributor to veto another guest, but they do allow contributors to have conditions that other guests are uninvited. Utter bollocks.

And bloody ridiculous that you should have to go through 3 levels of complaint (and ten weeks) for something that:

a) Should never have happened in the first place

b) Should have been resolved at stage 1 of the complaints process with an apology

GassyAss · 24/04/2019 16:41

I never received a reply to my complaint so well done on getting a response.

Popchyk · 24/04/2019 16:58

Their previous response was:

"We had invited Nicola Williams to appear on the 17th February and it was her decision to re-schedule to the following week on 24th February".

Now it is magically:

"You are correct in thinking that the invitation to Dr Williams was withdrawn after Rachel McKinnon had made that a condition of her own participation".

So why the fuck were you lying in the first place, BBC? And continued with the lie?

Shouldn't there be an investigation into why complaints are being responded to with bare-faced repeated lies?

They basically called Nic Williams a liar when they rubbished her version of events. When she was the one telling the truth.

That is not on.

They should publicly apologise to Nic Williams for lying about her.

KatvonHostileExtremist · 24/04/2019 17:04

Well done popchyk for your tenacity

They should have been honest in the first place. For shame BBC

ZuttZeVootEeeVro · 24/04/2019 17:10

Shouldn't there be an investigation into why complaints are being responded to with bare-faced repeated lies?

Their complaints department is pants. They do regularly lie and send out bollocks responses that purposefully miss the point.

But we'll done popchyk I'm impressed with your persistence.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 24/04/2019 17:16

Goodness - the BBC caught out telling lies !
OP - can you now make a complaint about the complaints department for telling lies and failing to investigate your original complaint in a timely and accurate manner? (if you have the energy to face more 'economies with the truth' )

jay55 · 24/04/2019 17:17

Well done on getting them to admit the truth.

I do wonder whether the cyclists subsequent behaviour had an impact on the about face.

bettybeans · 24/04/2019 17:18

Because a condition relating to appearance of other participants isn't exactly the same thing as a veto in that context, of course. They really must think we're idiots.

HumberElla · 24/04/2019 17:30

Well done for persistence. Thank you for holding the line on this, it’s so important that the BBC are challenged on their slippery behaviour.

So they lied, fudged the reasons (veto v conditions) and changed the story when it was clear you weren’t letting it go.