Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

....and she strolls it, sub 1:55

It's a good question FannyCann. I don't know, but would be interested in the answer.

Yes Fate The other thing I wondered is if (once a diagnosis had been made) there would normally be a recommendation to remove abdominal testes (generally speaking for standards of care in such cases). Whether this was done before or after puberty might have significant effects and different physical development outcomes.

I am also wondering if this has been suggested and a decision made to defer until after competitive career is over. Again, I am not implying any "gaming" of the situation, but it is an interesting conundrum.

I think we can assume that Semenya still has testes. The removal of them would mean the end of the athletic career as CS's performance when they had to take T blockers shows

Caster became an elite athlete because of the better performance of the body Caster was born with when competing against females. Caster would not have had an athletic career in any other circumstances. There are enormous vested interests in maintaining an apparent elite status here, but it is only derived from the category Caster was placed in and not from Caster's ability.

So when the press says she lives as a woman, all it really means is that she thinks of herself as one, or at least says she does, and checks that box on a form, and it says it on her birth certificate.

You see, I don't get the impression at all that she does think of herself as a woman. She talks about women in the third person in interviews. Whether this is as a result of her own cognitive dissonance - given her own body, hormones and the response of her community towards that - ( feels less dissonant presenting as a man, in albeit hyper-masculinised ways as over-compensation), or whether purely instinctively out of felt nature, I'm not sure.

www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/may/03/caster-semenya-wins-800m-doha-diamond-league-case-iaaf-athletics

@FannyCann - there is definitely a ‘gaming’ of the situation.

More gaslighting from the Guardian: “stopping someone competing as the woman she naturally is”.

[https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/03/caster-semenya-fair-play-running-athletics-south-african-ethics-sport-science]

She’s legally a woman, which is why she’s potentially able to compete in women’s sport. Biologically, she’s a male with DSD.

I have some sympathy on a human level, but fairness in women’s sports means excluding people who are not, biologically, women.

Sorry, I thought I’d cracked clicky links!

It's up to God apparently.

Interesting article
When she was a girl, growing up in rural South Africa, the runner Caster Semenya would sometimes face a humiliating ritual before a race. She grew accustomed, her coaches once said, to having to retreat to the bathroom with a member of a suspicious rival athletics team and physically show them that she was not a boy. From her childhood, people had gossiped about her body; by the time she had begun competing internationally she must have been used to the whispers, the open stares in changing rooms.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/03/caster-semenya-fair-play-running-athletics-south-african-ethics-sport-science

R4 'Any Questions' has just covered this. Its repeated tomorrow with 'Any Answers' afterwards.

I only caught part of the panel response but would comment that many are poorly briefed.

(Jonathan Bartley, Baroness Chakrabarti, Fraser Nelson, Helen Whately MP)

Just discussed on Radio 4 Any Questions. No challenge to the fact, stated many times that Caster is a woman.

X post!

I heard Chakrabhati speak for about a minute about the abuse of Casters human rights and had to switch off. I

What about the human rights of the women athletes fgs!

She’s legally a woman, which is why she’s potentially able to compete in women’s sport. Biologically, she’s a male
This looks like it could be a good way forward, that we could have people who are legally one gender but biologically the other gender?

Fuck off Guardian. Not a word from Gaby "Cologne rape victims had expensive smartphones" Hinsliff about the XY chromosome which means that no, Caster is not "naturally" a woman!

This looks like it could be a good way forward, that we could have people who are legally one gender but biologically the other gender?

Sport is seperated by sex.

It would be helpful to focus on this and not gender or gender identity.

Interesting article
When she was a girl, growing up in rural South Africa, the runner Caster Semenya would sometimes face a humiliating ritual before a race. She grew accustomed, her coaches once said, to having to retreat to the bathroom with a member of a suspicious rival athletics team and physically show them that she was not a boy. From her childhood, people had gossiped about her body; by the time she had begun competing internationally she must have been used to the whispers, the open stares in changing rooms.

I have long detested the Guardian's 'feminist' articles - so much re-inventing of the wheel, and so much whining.......You'd think women had never given birth before, or had to deal with domestic issues and imbalances ( they had of course, but with never so much publicity ).

I think much of this comes from each new generation having to re-discover the issues all over again - for themselves. I naively used to think that progress would somehow become imbibed into the collective gene pool - and that new generations could benefit from the wisdom of their fore-mothers. Alas, not!

Now trying to turn this into some kind of feminist issue - similar to Cathy Newman on Channel 4 the other night. Caster is just a poor, misunderstood and oppressed woman.In doing so, the Guardian is reporting this whole issue in purely personal terms: 'poor, mistreated and bullied woman' - without investigating the total picture. Of course it is unfortunate, on a personal level, that one person has become such a focus - but the issues are far bigger than one person, and transcend the individual.

Sorry for repeat phrases.....

Every single article or opinion piece I’ve read since the ruling has continued to refer to “unusually high levels for a woman” and “ruling affects female athletes”. Why, is everyone here on this thread capable of reading the CAS report and understanding that Semenya is 46XY but journalists aren’t? I wouldn’t expect a hack like Gaby Hinsliff to understand, or understand and be brave enough to write about it, similarly any idiot at the BBC, but Sean Ingle should be better. FFS it’s drivng me nuts. It’s all about “a woman denied” which is the complete opposite of what’s happening.

It’s all about “a woman denied” which is the complete opposite of what’s happening.

Yes, it's weird.....a sort of compensatory feminism - forged on the superficial at the expense of the real issues.

I dunno but hey it would be good to see some journalists doin* some real stuff on this rather than the oh poor me stuff

I dunno but hey it would be good to see some journalists doin some real stuff on this rather than the oh poor me stuff*

Yes, it is all just feel good/feel bad fluff. The Guardian drives me nuts these days. Who, and when, will report this issue properly and in informed detail?