Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

Talk about gas-lighting! Are you seriously suggesting she did not live her early life believing she was a girl?

Astounding!

And yes, she went through puberty... with neither set of gentials being prevalent - you know, the bits of us we usually rely on to identify ourselves as male or female (fuck, I did it again ) - being prevalant.

You seem to be embrodering a tale for yourself. But we don't need to hear it. It is uninformed!

You seem to be embrodering a tale for yourself. But we don't need to hear it. It is uninformed!

No it isn’t, I think it’s you that is uninformed.

You need to re read, as you are the one twisting here, and yes, that is gas-lighting of you.

I also find listening to cs speak uses gas-lighting language

You can't just pretend and claim ignorance But she didn't! The first set of tests were held confidentially (as are most athletes medical records, with a few very regular exceptions) and the IOC / IAAC decided she could continue to compete!

Since then she has competed knowing that science and IAAC regulations would be changed by her existence. But she has NEVER competed under a lie! That is what the court case was about!

Thanks, Datun

The other thing to bear in mind is that Caster is educated and capable and smart - but, she was raised in poverty. The chances of her being investigated for having no periods is small.

So, she doubtless had no idea that she had internal testes - which, I understand, are a cancer risk and have to be removed? Presumably she still has hers, if her testosterone levels are high?

I've just heard a bizarre racist quote on the 3pm radio 4 news bulletin where a female South African psychiatrist said that Caster's testosterone levels weren't acceptable because African women didn't meet western standards of femininity! Completely mad, she made it sound as though having male levels of testosterone and being intersex was normal for African women. I'd be highly hacked off with that attitude if I were an African woman.

Riddley, no I am not saying I don't believe CS was 'raised as a girl'. That said it would have become obviously pretty quickly that CS wasn't a girl. As others have said, this was clearly ignored and CS has taken advantage of it. Yes, we can blame background/culture however these things must not be allowed to cloud our judgement. Think about all those real girls that have worked their socks off like Laura Muir. Have you ever watched the absolute devastation on their faces as the races finish.

I am just hearing that CS is thinking of appealing. I need to step away from this as it's making me really mad. What a cheat!

If CS has undescended testes and is XY then there is no vagina no, doesn't mean that at all. It means genitals can be ambiguous.

Sorry Jessica ... I lectured in various aspects of sport physiology and psychology for long enough to have some idea!

And Smother, that is crass!

I wanted to watch Semenya in an interview to get a feel for the person.
This is one of the first I found.
There's an interesting comment from about 45 seconds in about being raised with boys and having general disdain for girls, who CS thinks are 'are little bit boring to me' because they are 'soft'.
In rural South Africa. Where girls are known for their pampered cushy lifestyles, right?
The female interviewer challenges CS "do you think I'm soft?"
"I think you're soft, of course" laughs.

This whole video gives me pause about exactly to what degree CS actually, truly, understands themself to be female.

She certainly is not a good advert for herself these days. But she is 28 years old and is just working out who she is.. thanks to a real and undiagnosed condition.

I would hope/expect that now this decision has been made she will rmake herself and be happy. Stop chasing the impossible, which her life's ambition has just today become!

Apartheid casts a long shadow. The many ANC and other resistance activists who went into exile were often taken in by the more bonkers end of the Euro-Left where they were exposed to all manner of anti-imperialist babble. Notably President Thabo Mbeki who came out of Moscow and Sussex Uni with a head full of guff and ended up denying that HIV caused AIDS for the most bat-guano of reasons.

CS knows full well who they are. They are on the record books, have the life style. If you tell yourself a life for long enough you'll end up believing it.

Glad you posted that video again

I completely missed that it was already on the thread! Sorry for the duplication. 😳

male development at puberty would have been extremely hard to ignore.

Yes, for those around Caster and for Caster themselves. Frankly, I think they know full well exactly who they are and have done so for some time, that video is just infuriating

Omg that video.

Jeez

The XY/XX cut off has some problems. Some people who appear as women have total insensitivity to testosterone. They have internal testes but are often tall, slim, attractive and with large breasts. They may only be diagnosed when periods don't start at puberty ( although widespread sex scanning on maternity US may lead to earlier diagnosis now.)

People with AIS feel and appear female and don't have a male puberty. So it would seem unfair not to let them compete as women. But the condition is rare.

We had a scary 2 week wait when one of my DDs was suspected of having this at 11, so I know an absurd amount about the subject.

Being raised as a girl or boy, being socialised as a girl or boy obviously has a significant impact. But when it comes to biological advantage, it's irrelevant.

You can feel sorry for someone who has had a chequered upbringing, whilst condemning their biological advantage as being unfair.

Where are people getting the idea that caster struggled with their, for want of a better word, identity? I'm genuinely asking, because, at least at the moment, they don't seem to be conflicted at all.

Sako’s English was fluent but rough, and he frequently referred to Semenya as “he.” “Caster was very free when he is in the male company,” Sako said. “I remember one day I asked her, ‘Why are you always in the company of men?’ He said, ‘No, man, I don’t have something to say to girls, they talks nonsense. They are always out of order.’ ”

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/30/eitheror