Caster Semenya

[LilaJude]

Is anyone else outraged that sports bodies are suggesting forcing Caster Semenyer to take medication to reduce her testosterone levels?

Caster has a naturally occurring phenomenon which gives her more testosterone than the average woman, and this has been deemed a competitive advantage that needs to be medically regulated.

How is this fair? We don’t handicap other athletes for having longer legs or more muscle mass. The nature of sport is that people with exceptional bodies triumph.

It’s like these sports governing bodies are saying ‘testosterone is a man thing, women aren’t allowed it.’ But Caster does have it, naturally, and it’s just part of who she is.

I just think it’s outrageous to force a woman to medicate just because a naturally occurring condition means her body doesn’t fit with what is conventionally seen as feminine / female.

Yes finalists in 800 Rio were Margaret Wambui and Francine Niyonsaba with caster

Aero how can this be the right decision? If CS is male, and that Times article seems to confirm it and as other have said Sharon Davis seems to know, then the decision is very wrong. CS should be stripped of the titles just as the East German and Russion drug cheats have been.

Why though, is Caster required to lower to 5nmol/l while 'transwomen' is double that? That highly unfair.

I am surprised that female 800 athletes are taking this to court and suing IAAF. But us girls are just toooo nice.

I can't find anything confirming that CS has a y chromosome. Is it speculation?

If CS is male, and that Times article seems to confirm it and as other have said Sharon Davis seems to know, then the decision is very wrong. CS should be stripped of the titles just as the East German and Russion drug cheats have been.

I really don't think she should be stripped of her titles (mind, I haven't thought about this too much). I do believe shes male, however she was brought up as female, thought she was female, and basically, intersex conditions are a bit of a grey area for me, and I tend to feel sympathy. Of course, its unfair on women, being unable to beat someone who is genetically male, but its a bit harder for me to be harsh on Semenya the way I am on random blokes who decide they are women them win by huge margins!

What Sharon Davis said was correct about the 3 medalists in that 800 metre final in Rio

For the benefit of any TRAs wondering what this means to them, the answer is Jack Shit.

We are talking about the difficult issue of athletes with intersex conditions; it has nothing to do with trans.

Well lets hope this does lead to other justices being done to women who have been robbed of titles fraudulently.

I am so impressed with listening to Sharon Davies very clear explanations and no nonsense statements of.facts, even where difficult.

Not for no reason is testosterone increased illegally to enhance performance, and why should anyone be above the 2mmol/L level of women? That is further injustice and who is responsible for this injustice.

What is the point in competing as a woman otherwise?

If you enter something as prestigious and regulated as this level of athletics the onus is on you to know what you are doing.

We are not allowed to get away with stealing products from shops, yes, mitigating circumstances apply, but you still return the goods that you would have profitted from.

It is no longer speculation as the media release and documents on the case linked to earlier in this thread stress that this ruling only applies to athletes with DSD and XY chromosomes.
It was always almost certain to anyone with medical knowledge that she had a Y chromosome though and people talking about her having a high testosterone due to malfunctioning ovaries had no understanding of DSD.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria

Caster has undescended testes. Which you don't get without a Y chromosome.

www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/11/30/eitheror

And from a post above:

The DSD covered by the Regulations are limited to athletes with “46 XY DSD” – i.e. conditions where the affected individual has XY chromosomes. Accordingly, individuals with XX chromosomes are not subject to any restrictions or eligibility conditions under the DSD Regulations.

www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Media_Release_Semenya_ASA_IAAF_decision.pdf

Anyone challenging the regulations about this particular disorder, has to have a Y chromosome. Because the disorder is limited to athletes with that chromosome.

If you watch the video of Caster. They are quite clearly presenting as male. There is no conflict. In the various articles I've read, caster says they don't like hanging around with girls, and never have.

CS has moved to 5000m as this distance is not covered by IAAF regulations

Erm, this is ridiculous, surely the ruling should apply to all distances. And also, it kind of proves to me that Caster knows that testosterone gives her a huge advantage over women, but simply does not care at all. So will just keep competing against different groups of women until (hopefully) a ruling comes that anyone who is genetically male is excluded from female sports, period.

One wonders how long CS has known about those XY chromosomes?

All those XX females who went through oestrogen driven puberty who lost out to CS in terms of a space on the track, in terms of prize money and sponsorship deals must be feeling truly awful today.

Yes I wonder too. I’m afraid I don’t feel the sympathy others have for Caster. Some point well before now, they knew they were male and had advantages and took things from women despite knowing this. I am pleased with this decision and do not feel sympathy for anyone who tries to unfairly take things from others.

In fairness, assuming Caster has a vagina, it is not then easy for them to just be a man.....they were raised as a girl.
Agree though she could show more sympathy for the plight of women racing against her.

It is a shit decison. As it would have been had they agreed with her.

CS is not culpable in her mis sesxing, in her rise to fame, nor is she to blame for wanting to continue in her career, she worked bloody hard for it. She is a she as that is how she was raised. She, and ALL other intersex individuals get a free pass to be whichever sex they want to be, as far as I am concerned, no matter what their underlying biology! I don't get the ppoint about losing any sympathy or empathy with her once she was made aware that her whole life was based on a misunderstanding, a lie!

HOWEVER science is science and the judgement is the only thing they could have decided. I am not sure about stripping her of her titles. Definitely not those prior to the IOC / IAAC investigation. Probably all those after, now that this ruling has been made. That makes me feel more for her. This is her life, her career, her fundamental abnormality we are highlighting here.

With this as starting block there is hope that more will be done to sort out the other issues of male/female sports!

All those calling for stripping of medals surely it should be all that fall under the 46XY ruling?

Caster is reported as being male here www.thetimes.co.uk/article/caster-semenya-women-s-athletics-star-is-biological-male-zgzx2v2vd

I feel the public was initially misled from what was plainly obvious. CS may not have fully grasped the situation going in but after the test results and media furore it was a choice to use the advantage and keep mum about the results which I cannot respect.

Why can’t she take more testorone and compete with men? Why does she have to reduce it to compete with women? CS is intersex and should be given both options.

Really happy? I've got a boy and a girl, it's been very easy seeing which is which going through puberty. If CS has undescended testes and is XY then there is no vagina. This 'being raised as a girl' stuff is just nonsense and it is being used as a reason to stop people questionning. I can't actually believe people think CS should be treated as female, allowed to race against females because she was 'raised' as one. Have you watched that video?!

This decision will be used by trans women to increase access to womens sport.

Why can’t she take more testorone and compete with men? Why does she have to reduce it to compete with women? CS is intersex and should be given both options. Because puberty and socialisation, amongst other things!

That would work well if every intersex child was identified at birtth (OMG did I just tye that?! ) Myabe that day will come. But at the moment most people in CS position didn't find out until they were in their teens!

CS may not have fully grasped the situation going in but after the test results and media furore it was a choice to use the advantage and keep mum about the results which I cannot respect. Some of that was the governing body's issue. They were trying to protect her from a media storm, and their medal count of course. But I can't bring myself to blame her for not just sitting down and throwing away her life's ambition because her biology had lied to her! That demands a far greater metal strength than I suspect m/any people have!

She was born intersex. As happened then and probably still today the parents were told she was a girl and they offer plastic surgery to "correct" the genital area. This happened here in the U.K. it was just that she became an athlete. Nobody knows how much she even knew herself at the time she first had a gender test - she will have realised she didn't have periods but otherwise her parents raised her as a girl as drs advises them to. She isn't to "blame" she isn't a man trying to change sex, just someone born different. The ruling is far from perfect but unless there's an intersex category what else can they do???

Semenya competed legitimately under the rules as they existed at the time. She is entitled to keep her titles and her prize money, although her records may be wiped as they are from time to time when rules are changed, e.g, new javelin to stop kebabing the track officials, or new swimsuit regs to ban the mega-expensive shark-skin, etc.

If CS has undescended testes and is XY then there is no vagina. This 'being raised as a girl' stuff is just nonsense and it is being used as a reason to stop people questionning

Are you saying you don’t believe she was raised as a girl?