Lighthouse 'radical' bookshop Edinburgh makes a statement on 'no platform'

[Laterthanyouthink]

www.lighthousebookshop.com/2019/02/16/to-platform-or-not-to-platform-where-we-stand.html

I cannot get my head around this at all, a bookshop should be the last place to find censorship

Why don’t they do a book exchange for us who’s library fines have got outta hand
They not bothered with ppl who can’t afford books and cantbkeep on top of library dates
They just like women who erm searching for the words
Erm fit into,their political aims. That’s not right political aims
But I guess what I am saying is they don’t want just ordinary women like m3 cos we are not good enough at being women
Gawd I am wandering on this
But to sum up
An ordinary woman would not be welcome there is what I feel

It never occurred to me before that the owners had to personally agree with all the books they sold. I would have thought that would be a bit of a head fuck! But just that they had the theme of being, well, radical

I really dislike them for their smugness
It’s horrid.
And justbshite

And in m6 city

I think you are in no position to call other posters sinister!

Someone disagreeing with you is not sinister. Alleging that there are mirky behind the scenes dealings that you can’t discuss is.

Naw Lila
They ought to,welcom3 all women not just the poshies who are privileged and who know what all the prounoun stuff means. Very elitist and non welcoming t o just ordinary women

Don’t be so bloody patronising, as if ‘ordinary’ or non-posh women can’t understand the debate. What a sneering assertion.

Why do you assume that?

I’m not assuming anything, I’m talking about direct like-for-like comparisons based on my experiences as a student where they would give you a discount on books you ordered through them that made them cheaper than blackwells for some things.

So judgemental!

I have yet to read anything written by the angry woke that does not immediately use racism as metaphors. They all use the same identical identity politics phrases.

It's a bit pathetic, especially when it is presented with such a knowing tone of assured originality.

Looking forward to the upcoming intersex, sex is a spectrum, genital essentialism lecture from the angry poster.

Don’t be so bloody patronising, as if ‘ordinary’ or non-posh women can’t understand the debate. What a sneering assertion.

What debate? Isn't the whole point of that gawdawful purple spiel that debate isn't welcome or tolerated?

I suppose once you have judged people as having imorral views you can say what you like to them. Like the unpleasant young man in Haringey lecturing Venice Allen on abortion, he could not even bring himself to acknowledge her experience of the thing he was haranguing her about.

So bored of the unjustified sanctimony. I mean what is actually imorral about the fact that humans can't change sex?

All I can think about is Portlandia and Fred Armisen

It's a bit pathetic, especially when it is presented with such a knowing tone of assured originality

Oh that's so accurate.

What debate Lila. Am not welcome in that bookshop
You are
I can’t debate becaus3 I am not welcome as a woman to debate
Most women wouldn’t be welcome cos they wouldn5 fit into the narrow stereotype that the owners want us to fit into
We don’t know the correct pronouns. Why would we ?
We don’t know that questioning some stuff is not welcome
Why would we
Why would we know when we transgress against what it is we don’t know what it is we don’t know
Confusing it is
But know when not welcome

It’s mere yards from the university and in an area of town which is mostly lived in by young people. It’s in the midst of its target audience. And if you’re a student and ask them to order in books, it will do it cheaper than Blackwells. It’ll do fine.

'News From Nowhere' radical bookshop in Liverpool is a legend. it has been going since the 1970's. They order whatever books ( & videos) you you like in really quick time; and do not question your choices. Their 'target audience' is anyone who is interested in radical politics of any kind - without discrimination. They aim to keep their personal politics out of it. It is a community service, a place of respite, and a real treasure.

I think it used to be called World Books or something like that. I wrote my masters dissertation on feminism, fairytales and the postmodern body and it was an absolute treasure trove for that

What is a post modern body? How does it differ to a pre-modern body?

Isn't the whole point of that gawdawful purple spiel that debate isn't welcome or tolerated?

I’m pretty sure the statement said they were happy to discuss the position they have adopted with anyone who comes in acting in good faith, but that if you aren’t someone who would generally shop there and are only attending for the specific purpose of telling them you think they’re wrong, they aren’t interested. I think that’s a reasonable position to take. They don’t owe it to any old stranger to have a debate just because you don’t like their stance; but if you’re someone who knows the shop and is concerned about the direction it’s going in, you’re welcome to discuss it.

You’re obviously choosing to interpret that as ‘women aren’t welcome’, but you must accept that is your version of events and not actually a fact. I, and many other trans-inclusive women, feel more welcome there as a result of this stance. What you mean is you personally wouldn’t feel welcome. Well, maybe so, but that’s just reality sometimes.

I wouldn’t feel remotely welcome at an event for gender-critical feminists, or in a bookshop which had explicitly decided to promote this ideology. I rarely feel welcome on this MN board because my views are contrary to the majority’s. Does that mean GC events or Mumsnet are excluding women or stifling debate? No! Does it mean I actually wouldn’t be welcome, as in wouldn’t be allowed in? Almost certainly not. It just means I wouldn’t personally be comfortable / in an environment where I knew people we hostile to my views.

What is a post modern body? How does it differ to a pre-modern body?

The world (of literature) isn’t really divided into pre modern and post modern. Postmodernism in respect of the body is the idea that our understanding of bodies is something constructed under socially-conditioned value systems and hierarchical discourses. Fairy tales are an interesting site for this discussion because historically they have been such a clear illustration of damaging patriarchal attitudes to the female body (for example, women are consistently portrayed as either virtuous young virgins or evil old harridans, and mothers are killed off early - like Snow White’s - because there isn’t room in the narrative for women who aren’t virgins and aren’t evil). Lots of feminist re-tellings of fairytales address these ideas of the body by exploring the way our understanding of bodies in literature has been conditioned by patriarchal control of the discourse.

Sorry, bit of a tangent - it’s a subject I find so interesting.

I, and many other trans-inclusive women, feel more welcome there as a result of this stance.

You’d feel unwelcome or threatened by a normal selection of books?

Don’t you see that’s the problem in a nutshell? People taking the stance that exposure to an idea can be physically harmful, and that the response should be to stop anyone being exposed to ideas, rather than confront those ideas, critically examine them, and respond peacefully with a considered argument?
That’s what university should be FOR. But now students think ideas are ‘literal violence.’ It’s a concept that should be challenged and ridiculed. If you’re (the generic you, students as whole) not exposing yourself to challenging ideas and learning the historical context, and ways to counter such ideas, you haven’t been in education, you’ve been in very expensive daycare.

littlebrowndog
we are not good enough at being women

Women never are 😭

women are consistently portrayed as either virtuous young virgins or evil old harridans

"evil old harridans" = TERFs

Lila is quite clearly the new owner or a very, very close friend/girlfriend.

I too could pop along in my cashmere and fur (stunning) and ask for Greer (brave). They might find me a "bit Tory", horsey & country. I also centre women which is a little radical for them.

I admit I've never been to a Feminist book shop. It seems from reading this thread there are 2 types. 1. Centres women, 2. "nice little feminists" who centre men (trans + most of the list of the rules of misogyny - i.e., cool, sexy feminists).

I wonder what the dog makes of it all.
Wait, was that the dog that went to the protest outside the forwomen scot meeting? (Nice plan to bring a large dog to a protest) I guess he/she is on board then.

very expensive daycare
Ha!

Limiting access to printed material, books with radical ideas being deemed not suitable, and keeping women away from politically challenging thoughts. Probably for the best if you want to continue under the big P.

A bookshop is the last place that should be designated a "safe space".

I, and many other trans-inclusive women, feel more welcome there as a result of this stance

You’d feel unwelcome or threatened by a normal selection of books?

I mist admit Lila' s comment made me laugh out loud.

When I was young the radical bookseller took great pride in selling all the books no other shop would touch. They were raided by the police on a regular basis.

Mind you this was also in the days when the left liked to argue and debate.

I'm glad I lived through those times and saw it for myself, otherwise I wouldn't believe it ever happened.

The world (of literature) isn’t really divided into pre modern and post modern. Postmodernism in respect of the body is the idea that our understanding of bodies is something constructed under socially-conditioned value systems and hierarchical discourses.

I know that, really.......just being a bit flippant.

Our understanding of the body, ands the reality of the body are two separate things, though. Post-modernism so often sounds like an intellectual head fuck.

Postmodernism in respect of the body is the idea that our understanding of bodies is something constructed under socially-conditioned value systems and hierarchical discourses.

Can you expand on that? What do you mean? Our understanding of our bodies is from scientific investigation. Biology just ‘is.’ It doesn’t care about postmodernism, it works on data and observation, test and response.
What bits of our understanding of bodies is a construct? I don’t understand...

ZigZagZombie
Lila is quite clearly the new owner or a very, very close friend/girlfriend.

Yup