Lighthouse 'radical' bookshop Edinburgh makes a statement on 'no platform'

[Laterthanyouthink]

www.lighthousebookshop.com/2019/02/16/to-platform-or-not-to-platform-where-we-stand.html

I cannot get my head around this at all, a bookshop should be the last place to find censorship

Or maybe they have a copy of 1984?

I think they read it and decided doublethink was a brilliant idea:

we always strive to platform a wide and diverse range of voices

people and organisations who share such views....have absolutely no place in the bookshop or at any of our events

we believe that we rise together, or not at all

we have been successful in maintaining a space that is welcoming, accessible and thought-provoking to visit

It is not “shutting down the debate” if we refuse to discuss

Why not just rename the shop ‘were stupid but we don’t want to admit it. You ideas are scary. Stop. I’ll tell mummy on you!’

How can they be a feminist bookshop and reject the gender critical?
I'm genuinely lost.

It is not “shutting down the debate” if we refuse to discuss

It is though. Refusing to discuss is, really, very much ‘shutting down the debate.’ It’s pretty much the definition of it.

I’ll have a copy of ‘the trial’ with my copy of 1984...

Am nearby. Am an old grumpy TERF woman. What books can I request?

Am nearby. Am an old grumpy TERF woman. What books can I request?

The collected works of Germaine Greer, Sheila Jeffreys and Julie Bindel. And maybe ask them if they have any copies of the Transgender Trend Resource Pack.

What a lot of pompous nonsense. Doesn't sound very welcoming or inclusive at all, and not at all feminist, more femenist. I take it the profit margin is not a concern. Maybe they are trying to drum up publicity?

Now DeadHead Comics next door, that's much more my cup of tea.

I’m so looking forward to them closing down, when more and more people waken up to this misogynistic movement and realise which businesses, newspapers and politicians were willing to permit in this widespread abuse of women. That’s ok, Lighthouse, we, the gender critical women are happy to shop elsewhere.

i live near to this bookshop and have always been put off by their books on display, so i have never entered!

So if we see an shop that proclaims itself to be feminist, we know that it is actually totally anti-women and pro-men. They must have thought 1984 was a handbook

No platforming isn’t censorship. It’s got nothing to do with censorship

No platforming isn’t censorship. It’s got nothing to do with censorship

Censorship: the suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

No platforming: the action or practice of preventing someone holding views regarded as unacceptable or offensive from contributing to a public debate or meeting.

No platforming is a type of censoring. That doesn't mean it's always unjustified, but it's dysingenuous to claim you are an inclusive space which promotes debate when you won't allow mention of biological reality.

No platforming is a type of censoring.

I assumed that LilaJude was joking. Sounds like you think the post was actually serious?

I assumed that LilaJude was joking.

I hope so. I'll be quite happy to own my irony fail.

Who can tell these days?

Who can tell these days?

I puzzled over it for a minute before coming to that conclusion, because of some of the flying-in-the-face-of-reason posts that sometimes appear in this section But the carried it.

No platforming isn’t censorship. It’s got nothing to do with censorship confused

Of course it is. It’s saying ‘ I refuse to talk about this and I refuse to let YOU or anyone else talk about it either.’ It is, literally, censorship.

I’d love to hear them explain why biological truth is ‘reactionary’ when it is in fact radical. Radical as in from the Latin for ‘root.’

They’ve never been a particularly welcoming place. There are plenty of good bookshops in Edinburgh where one can poke around a real variety of books without being judged on how woke one is.

Am nearby. Am an old grumpy TERF woman. What books can I request?

Perhaps a dictionary, so they can look up reactionary and radical.

Also a biology textbook. Higher level is more than enough....

Censorship is suppression. No view is being suppressed because a particular platform refuses to broadcast it. What an utterly absurd position to take.

Any private organisation or business, and any individual, has the freedom to decide what events they want to host and what perspectives they wish to share, and choosing to exclude a perspective which is contrary to your values or to the values of the business / organisation isn’t censorship. You aren’t preventing that perspective from being shared. You aren’t suppressing it. You are simply choosing not to actively disseminate it yourself.

No person and no movement has the right to make use of any platform. LGBT groups aren’t expected to host people who believe in conversion therapy. Jewish societies aren’t expected to host holocaust deniers. Labour CLPs aren’t expected to host Tories. Under your absurd interpretation, all of these examples would count as censorship. How nonsensical.

Censorship is suppression. No view is being suppressed because a particular platform refuses to broadcast it. What an utterly absurd position to take.

There's a difference between a platform not broadcasting a view, and announcing that it refuses to broadcast it. Particularly when it's a perfectly valid view, and aligns with reality.

Apologies for thinking you were joking, I didn't think anyone could actually believe what you posted.

There's a difference between a platform not broadcasting a view, and announcing that it refuses to broadcast it.

In what way? Why is it censorship to make a statement saying you refuse to disseminate a particular view, but not censorship to refuse to do so without saying anything? And why is is worse / more oppressive to be transparent about what you are doing?

Particularly when it's a perfectly valid view, and aligns with reality.

This is irrelevant. Everyone thinks their own views are valid and grounded in reality. That doesn’t make them any more entitled to access someone else’s platform and use it to share their view.

Apologies for thinking you were joking, I didn't think anyone could actually believe what you posted.

Believe me, I feel the same. I am struggling to believe anyone can reasonable hold or defend the belief that this constitutes censorship, and in all honesty I suspect you’re only claiming it does because it furthers your agenda in respect of painting anyone vocally standing in support of trans rights as being unreasonable and oppressive.

. The horrible irony of a ‘feminist’ ‘inclusive’ bookshop promoting misogynistic authoritarian restrictions on women’s speaking and reading..

They can’t seriously use ‘feminist’ or ‘radical’ as descriptors about their bookselling when they’re just falling into line with the tired old woman haters can they?

As an aside I think that ‘feminist’ has now become such a catch all term used for so many different views that it’s actually getting meaningless. Can we use ‘women’s liberation’ instead- or what term might be better?

The horrible irony of a ‘feminist’ ‘inclusive’ hmm bookshop promoting misogynistic authoritarian restrictions on women’s speaking and reading..

It's actually hilarious. "We're inclusive feminists so we include everyone apart from women."

LilaJude - not interested.

LilaJude - not interested.

Heartbroken

Any private organisation or business, and any individual, has the freedom to decide what events they want to host

Of course they do. Nobody has said otherwise. That doesn't change the definition of censorship- they are censoring those views from being expressed on their premises. Indeed where they are talking about disposal of wrongthink books it's not called no platforming, it's just referred to by the general term (censorship).

Businesses do that all the time, but it's noteworthy in this case because:

1. Bookshops have a long tradition against censorship. You can buy everything from Mein Kamph to Das Kapital in most bookshops.

1. They explicitly claim to promote the exchange of ideas.

1. They explicitly claim to be inclusive and feminist, yet they exclude Muslim feminists, gender critical feminists and anyone else who they don't consider a 'real' feminist.

Under your absurd interpretation, all of these examples would count as censorship.

If you were talking about banning discussion of ideas then those examples would be censorship. Two of them are very valid censorship, though equating objection to self ID with holocaust denial is stupid. A Labour CLP refusing to admit people who supported a policy that was 'Tory' would be rightly criticised.

Censorship is suppression. No view is being suppressed because a particular platform refuses to broadcast it. What an utterly absurd position to take.

Of course it’s censorship. It’s literally suppressing the ability to discuss in public.

This is one private business. They are allowed to censor whatever they like. For them to say they’re feminist, and then censor women from discussing the fact that nobody can change sex is the ridiculous position.

Do you believe humans can change sex?