Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

Yes, Quantambaby I'd guess we're both blocked by terfblocker, along with around 50,000 other women.

I loved it when Martina called her a nasty person at the end of the article. That's just it isnt it? Rachel McKinnon is just a nasty, self-absorbed, self-obsessed person with little empathy or self-analysis who enjoys bullying women. And what kind of stereotypical gendered behaviour is that now hmmmm?

Twitter feed is just full of "Holy. Fuck" "I just can't" drama llama and transphobe slurs by the way.

Brilliant from Martina. Very brave of her to take a stand against the trans juggernaut.

Brava Martina!

She handled this really well, I think. Admitted she didn’t know everything, read up on the issue and - importantly - shares her findings, ie the emperor is even more nekkid than she thought.

I read the Walsh piece on Caster Semenya too - maybe a little quickly, but I couldn’t see what practical solution he is actually advocating for, since he’s clearly set out why present day T levels don’t cut it.

Knicknackpaddyflak
If Semenya has been agreed as male I agree. Otherwise it's just an advantage like any other.
their personal rights and experiences can't be prioritised over fairness
Ignoring the minority's rights in favour of the majority isn't fairness.

McKinnon is a cheat. I don't believe Semenya is a cheat.
I'm undecided as to what is fair, testosterone levels are so linked to performance levels that it makes sense to regulate them. However if that means disqualifying someone or forcing them to take gnRH agonists that doesn't seem fair either.
Not just Semenya, all those distance runners with abnormally high testosterone.

I also feel a bit weepy about this. It would be amazing if other female athletes now feel emboldened to speak out.

Kiwi Farms are having fun today too. Page 58 of Rachel McKinnon.

The only logical solution is to base it on chromosomes. Chromosomes determine gene expression into the proteins that form a human body. If there's an X chromosome in any of your cells, you're biologically male and compete in males sports. Anything else is natural variation.

This is very harsh in intersex people, I know, or with mosaicism, but it the only way to stop blatant cheats like Rachel McKinnon. The Y chromosome is male determining in humans. The number of normal.biologival men pretending to be women in sports to win is always going to vastly outweigh the tiny proportion of people like Casta Semanya who didnt realise they had a DSD. Mandatory genetic testing when registering for any professional sporting event solves it. Had she known at a younger age when she first started competing, she could have competed as a man surely, such is her massive advantage. If she has no Y chromosomes, just naturally high testosterone (not likely I dont think) then its just natural lucky genetic variation, like being born to be 6ft5 and being a basketball player, then let her compete at a woman.

Ha, ha, Cheat McKinnon is peak-transing the world. And her PhD is in lying, too.

Martina is a powerful voice in this debate. Her courage shines out.

calpop
It is the Y chromosome that makes a person genetically male. That may have just been a mistake on your part but I wanted to point this out for any readers who are not aware.

calpop
I can now see from later on in your post that the earlier 'X' was a mistake.

The comments under the articles are almost 100% in agreement. As they are under Andrew Gilligan's article.

Sport and the grooming of children - two issues that unite everyone .

Yes you're right, the first X should be a Y also!

Presence of Y chromosomes is male- determining.

i don't know how this well established scientific fact has been forgotten/eclipsed in the last 2 decades, not least by my phones spell checker!

McKinnon definitely peaked Navratilova, huh? Yet another example of how ‘educating oneself’ on transgender issues takes you down the rabbit hole from ‘confused ally’ to ‘terfy mcterfface’.
Well done to Martina for speaking out so unequivocally- when it comes to women’s sport, she really is an expert.

Interesting that Renee Richards isn’t convinced of Richard’s own actions, in hindsight. Possibly horrified at starting the slippery slope to where we are now?

The entire current trans situation seems to be the unintended consequences of lots and lots of individual actions and our tolerance to them - the road to hell being paved with good intentions springs to mind.

Thank you The Times

FlyingOink

I see your point, this is not an easy issue.

If Semenya has been agreed as male I agree. Otherwise it's just an advantage like any other.

But it isn't an advantage like any other, which is why Semenya's situation is being discussed but not that of pretty much all other women athletes with their many variations. It's a unique person with a unique situation because of a medical condition.

Ignoring the minority's rights in favour of the majority isn't fairness.

When rules are made for fairness in competitive sport for all - with that being a very massive majority - where huge amounts of money and funding are involved for wins, then I do think fairness means that a very few people have to accept that their circumstances can't fit that particular career without significant unfairness and disadvantage to everyone else. Competing at these levels isn't a right, it's a case of qualifying with the very specific circumstances required.

This sentence also: Indeed, if a male were to change gender in such a way as to eliminate any accumulated advantage, he would have to begin hormone treatment before puberty. For me, that is unthinkable.

Oops, posted too soon. For me, that is unthinkable. But not unthinkable to far too many people.

Yes bluescreen I loved that part too. Martina was signalling criticism of PB's for kids in a very subtle but firm
way.

100% agree with Martina

Not rtft but glad to see her mention how unfair it is that men are getting honours they simply couldn't attain in their own category (ie without cheating). I don't understand what she is saying about srs - I don't think she is implying that males who have had srs should compete with women, but that isn't clear.

Well played, Martina!

So glad the Twitter spat wasn’t the end of this. Martina is great!

Delighted to discover I am blocked by RMcK. My 7 tweets ever on unrelated topics are clearly very threatening to those of a more delicate nature.