Martina speaks out!

[PimmsnLemonade]

I'm so pleased to see this. I've been a big fan of Martina since I was a kid and this just makes her go up even higher in my estimation:

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/martina-navratilova-blasts-cheating-transgender-women-in-sport-8fmjbnh99

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-rules-on-trans-athletes-reward-cheats-and-punish-the-innocent-klsrq6h3

That’s excellent from Martina and quite amazing given the grief she knows she’ll get, although I prefer David Walsh’s conclusions regarding Semenya.

McKinnon who said lesbians should get used to cocks
Good job martina

Excellent article, glad that Martina has given this thought and stands strong.

However, her transgender/transsexual distinction makes no sense - cutting off a man’s penis doesn’t undo the biological advantage. I’d assumed we no longer use “transsexual” as we’ve all realised humans can’t change sex, not as a distinguisher of how much surgery someone has had.

But still, very good news!

Brilliant article, how on earth can she be accused of transphobia when she points out her friendship with her transsexual coach. Who also has misgivings about whether they should have competed in the women's.

The continued use of transsexual is, I believe, to desparate old school trans people from the modern bunch of trans people. Different attitudes and behaviour, as a rule, it seems.

At least McKinnon reported the “executed” comment, so we know there is a line of abuse towards Martina that even McKinnon isn’t willing to cross .

She nailed it. I love this
I know the argument is made that sport is always unfair and that the notion of a level playing field is a myth. Someone who is 5ft tall has next to no chance on a basketball court. But I still believe that fairness should always be valued and strived for, and that unfairness introduced through human action and chemical means should be condemned and outlawed.

I'm not sure about Caster Semenya. I'm pretty sure her team know she has an inbuilt advantage. If it isn't her fault? Well, it isn't Frankie Dettori's fault he is small and slightly built, which puts him at an advantage for a jockey. And Isaiah Thomas played in the NBA despite being 5'9".
So does athletics focus on continual performance improvements or does it look for naturally gifted or advantaged superhumans? How many people are there with Semenya's condition and do we want to watch them compete against each other?
The IAAF findings that a disproportionate number of women with abnormal testosterone levels are represented in the rankings: Over the last number of years the IAAF looked at the numbers and found that in women’s track events from 400m to one mile, there was a huge over-representation of women with male levels of testosterone. Though such people constitute a tiny minority of the general population, within elite level track and field they are a sizable proportion of the overall pool. (David Walsh article)
Is that fair or unfair? Are they the elite, or is it a chemical advantage? Is sport supposed to celebrate natural ability or training effort and commitment, or some balance of both?
I don't think it's to make someone take anti-androgens (presumably something like Lupron?) But then someone without that condition would not be able to compete.
It's like moving basketball nets two feet higher. Then only players who are nearing seven feet tall would have a competitive advantage, and it starts to get ridiculous. So I'm conflicted.

Martina's transgender/transsexual distinction is a good one. It appeals to the public's sense of fair play, offers wokebros a way out of their tortured logic and re-emphasises the fact that most trans people retain their unaltered genitalia. Plus from her personal point of view it makes sense when taking Renée Richards into account.
But McKinnon is a piss-taker. Of that there is no doubt.

Martina writes:

But I also deplore what seems to be a growing tendency among transgender activists to denounce anyone who argues against them and to label them all as “transphobes”. That’s just another form of tyranny.

So what does McKinnon do? Tweet that Martina has gone “full transphobe”.

I really would like to see some evidence that McKinnon has some form of education, because I can’t see how someone so stupid could end up teaching at a university.

Martina Navratilova walked into the US Immigration Office and asked for asylum at the age of 18.

You cannot bully this woman.

Another threat against Martina, but it is trans people who are scared of GC feminists?

Thanks feministfairy for all the share tokens. Great article from Martina and even better, I think, to have written it after she had done more research. The Radio 4 review of the papers just after the 7.00 am news mentioned the article too. Every word is so brilliant - especially the sentence about people gaining awards in sports in which they had previously competed less successfully as men.

gaining awards in sports in which they had previously competed less successfully as men
I thought this was another bid to Renée Richards, as Martina specified Richards had comparable success before and after surgery.

Nod not bid sorry

Great article. I don't fully agree with all her conclusions but I can make allowances for the fact she's only just peaked and is probably still in the 'if I'm nice and kind then the TRA's will understand my point of view phase'.

It's really important to have top athletes like Martina speaking out. I hope she emboldens others to back her.

WE LOVE YOU, MARTINA!!

Good article. It is bloody silly.

I think the “executed” bloke was being ironic.

Rachel McKinnon has retained a fair amount of her male entitlement, and total inability to argue. “Sport isn’t played with the genitals” has made a reappearance on her timeline - how can anyone think that is a point worthy of the seconds it takes to type out? Utter guff.

Great that McKinnon keeps tweeting about this. Walking right into the trap. Show the world who you are, Rachel. The right conclusions will be drawn by the sane majority.

Don't agree with her about Semenya. Setting a limit for Testosterone is precedented in male sprinting where several cheats doped themselves and claimed it was a natural level. There being no test for artificially high testosterone, you have to set a limit.

And the 5ft basketball player can go off and be a jockey, unlike the seven foot ones.

MillytantForceit
But where do you draw the line with natural advantages? East Africans dominating distance running due to muscle structure and limb length? Do we have a West African division, a Caucasian division, an East Asian division? Do the Chinese not want to watch Chinese sprinters compete against each other? They will never be competitive internationally.
I really don't know what is fair in Semenya's case. Her levels aren't her fault but competing against someone with abnormally high testosterone is pointless.

Nic Williams on LBC now!

Martina
Brave and brilliant.
This is the truth.

Could have been a nod FlyingOink but less doubt about the main target Read an interesting article about Renée Richards via the Caster Semenya thread. She came across as thoughtful and aware.

Martina speaks with the voice of quiet authority.