Times 16/2/1/9 Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children......

[Melroses]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9

Does anyone have a share token?

[hipsterfun]

With respect to organisational policy positions, I anticipate a lot of ‘No current employees were involved with...’ and ‘We have no record of...’.

[thatdamnwoman]

This has just underlined for me the important role that older lesbians who have the experience and confidence to hold the line can play in encouraging young lesbians to feel comfortable with their bodies and their sexuality. Ten years ago, as a second-waver, I felt patronised and made forcibly redundant by pomo-libfems. Now I know that what I and my friends need to do is offer safe spaces for young lesbians to grow strong.

[ChattyLion]

That’s a really important point. I will try to make sure that sort of thing is documented professionally for the future.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Interestingly GIDS appear to have released a statement saying that the report in incorrect.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

The Trust has thoroughly investigated the concerns raised in Dr Bell's report. None of the concerns around safety or safeguarding were upheld by our Medical Director. The recommendations made by Dr Sinha mainly focused on standardising and evidencing our very thoughtful and personalised processes in a field where clinicians grapple daily with high levels of complexity, sparse evidence and great variety in the young people coming forward, their developmental stage, feelings, histories and hopes.

The service prides itself in taking a perspective on issues of gender identity which is independent, open-minded and based on the needs of an individual young person. Our clinicians work thoughtfully with young people addressing complex issues and appropriately extending assessments on a case-by-case basis.

We are disappointed this unsubstantiated report authored by individuals with no expertise in this field made its way to the Sunday Times and would urge caution about reproducing its content. It is also important to point out that the report presented hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies and does not reflect the practice of the Service.

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/gids-review/

[nevernotstruggling]

It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family,


Of course it's historical abuse!!! Been saying this for years. Seems so obvious

[NonHypotheticalLurkingParent]

hipsterfun

That gave he a hollow laugh - I've complained a few times regarding DDs treatment - every time I get the response - 'we're sorry you feel this way, but So-and-So no longer works for the trust so we were unable to question them'.

thatdamnwoman

What you say is true. I have may family friends who are old school lesbians (all aged 70+ plus now), they have been very helpful and useful for DD to talk to and listen to.

[NonHypotheticalLurkingParent]

We are disappointed this unsubstantiated report authored by individuals with no expertise in this field made its way to the Sunday Times and would urge caution about reproducing its content. It is also important to point out that the report presented hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies and does not reflect the practice of the Service.

This paragraph is very defensive. Sounds to me like someone of low authority is blowing a whistle and the trust big-wigs don't like it.

[R0wantrees]

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3510367-Tavistock-article-in-the-DM

[Popchyk]

That statement from the Tavistock upthread is confusing.

Are they saying that the David Bell report is unsubstantiated? David Bell works at the Tavistock as a consultant psychiatrist.

Or are they saying that Gilligan's article in The Times is unsubstantiated?

In which case they should release both the Bell report and the Tavi's response to it. Then we'll find out who is lying.

Gilligan is having none of it.

twitter.com/mragilligan/status/1097106895318466560

"Many of the statements in this Tavistock press release are simply not true. The author of the report is a past president of the British Psychoanalytic Society. The case studies are real, and directly described by Tavvi clinicians in interviews annexed to the report."

"It's also absurd of the Tavvi to describe the report as "unsubstantiated." As our article shows, many of the criticisms were substantiated even by the Trust's own medical director. This sort of denial really damages their credibility".

[nauticant]

Well, The Tavistock and Portman statement is carefully worded isn't it? You can read it and be left with the impression that people have said things that are untrue but if you look back is it actually saying that any of the reports are untrue? It tells more in what it doesn't say that what it does.

[nauticant]

Ahh, X-post with Popchyk.

[Popchyk]

Yeah, the Tavi statement wants to suggest that somebody somewhere made stuff up about stuff that the Tavi say was deliberately made-up in the Bell report (hypothetical vignettes rather than actual case studies).

But the Tavi won't directly say who they are accusing of making stuff up about the made-up stuff.

Anyways.

David Bell himself will be able to tell us if those case studies are true or "hypothetical vignettes" as the Tavi calls them. As will the Tavi staff who contributed the material.

The phrase hypothetical vignettes just sets alarm bells off with me. It is a phrase that is used to obfuscate. And we are supposed to believe that overworked staff, under huge pressure suddenly have spare time to contribute made-up case studies to a report designed uncover the truth.

Not. buying. it.

[nauticant]

When someone in a position of power says "our enemies are telling lies about us, but we're not going to say what the lies are" it's time to assume they're trying to cover something up.

[Popchyk]

Oh yes.

And their denial then becomes the story.

And Gilligan actually has a copy of the Bell report. Which he might decide to release publicly if the Tavi starts to go after him.

Or if any single member of staff is unhappy with the "hypothetical vignette" story then they could release it anonymously as well.

Gilligan must be wetting himself with excitement. Because this is just the start.

[birdsdestiny]

On Gilligans twitter there is a comment from the parent of an autistic child about their experiences. I am paraphrasing but "in the first appointment I experienced more hard sell than from a double glazing salesman"

[LangCleg]

Well, The Tavistock and Portman statement is carefully worded isn't it?

Isn't it just? An internal review has leaked and it doesn't make for complimentary reading.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

I'm hoping that now the Tavistock has accused Gilligan / The Times of lying the Times will be able to publish more to establish the facts.

[nauticant]

It feels like there's a potential tipping point here. Cracks are beginning to appear and those with a stake in this, like the Tavistock, are facing a choice between acknowledging the cracks or trying to paper over them while people are watching. Till now those supporting the gender identity ideology have relied on things not being being discussed in the public domain and that's been very effective.

[feministfairy]

nauticant
My worry is that politicians won't say or do anything until there is clear evidence of the harm being done to children. Just as the Ministry of Justice and David Gauk implemented and defended the indefensible placement of male born sex offenders in women's prisons until women were actually sexually assaulted, so I fear the woke and dodgy in the DfE and Damian Hinds will be silent until the serious case reviews into child deaths / abuse scandals start. And then they'll 'review and amend'.

[nauticant]

I didn't quite finish my thought. It's one thing to cause harm while being able to say "but I was actually trying to do good" and quite another thing to have been seen to have turned a blind eye once concerns have been raised.

Quite a difficult position to be in. How to deal with it? The easiest response is to stop the concerns being raised or to undermine them.

[nauticant]

Sadly it's always the way feministfairy. Things often need to overshoot before there's a trigger that brings things into the public domain and once the people in charge are aware that anger is growing, they cry "But this is appalling! If only we'd known earlier!"

People often comfortably coexist with the actual scandal for quite some time. There needs to be a trigger.

[feministfairy]

Or to ignore the challenges. I have been shown some spectacularly awful responses from Damian Hinds (Secretary of State for Education) in response to women raising the safeguarding issues about parental alienation, eradicating sex segregated spaces and organisations deliberately undermining safeguarding. He just writes about his enthusiasm for mixed sex toilets and ignores the serious questions about safety and safeguarding. Comes over as totally creepy.

[feministfairy]

You're right nauticant. At least this time they can't claim not to have known - the evidence is out there.

[LangCleg]

The easiest response is to stop the concerns being raised or to undermine them.

Yes. They are in NSPCC and Guides territory now.

There's a paper trail.