Trans Teen Survival Guide by Fox and Owl

[womensvoicesmatter]

I was curious what's being peddled to teens, so I got the book. I'm only a few pages in and pretty horrified, so I thought I'd share it with you lot.

(This might take some time though, I don't have a lot of free time right now!)

Even the inscription is enraging. The book is dedicated to their trans friend who committed suicide. It's not a subtle few words, it's a whol page including a cartoon of this person with a halo. And it says the book is based on the blog they wrote on tumblr.

While of course I'm sad for Fox and Owl that their friend died, and I recognise that to lose someone to suicide is a terrible trauma I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, I also think it's deeply irresponsible to start a book aimed at teenagers, lauding someone who killed themselves - especially given the popular myths and misuse of suicide stats about trans kids.

It makes me suspicious of the book before we've even started. What kind of propaganda lies within?

[NeurotrashWarrior]

R0wan that's exactly why I query the front page about suicide. I'm sure they actually think they're doing 'good' they're so far down the ferret hole, but the reality is that it's confusing things even more for young people and as the article points out, the pressure is becoming militarised with that suicide thing as the front shield.

We've just heard how damaging repeated images of self harm on Instagram were to the young girl who then killed her self. The kids don't need this.

We are all unique and this is ever needs to be campaigned. Actual dysphoria is different and needs to be left to the professionals. Interestingly, a number of transsexuals believe nothing should be medicalised till over 21.

[GrumpyGran8]

Jesus Christ, this is grooming 101 isn't it?
It's also cultism 101 - tell your victims that their family is sick/evil, that the cult is the way to happiness, keep them away from any dissenting opinions and views.

[CaptainKirksSpookyghost]

Name changing is also a big part of cultism.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

A scary amount of 5 ⭐️ from people who profess to be professionals and run clubs for poor teenage sods.

[Jazzbunny]

How do you give an honest review if you've not read the book?

propaganda
Dictionary result for propaganda
/prɒpəˈɡandə/
noun
noun: propaganda; noun: Propaganda

1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view.

Stop being bullies and leave them alone.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

If you read the reviews you will see that they are being used to promote more than the book. All 5stars and wide eyed hero worship? Give me a break.

And as for ‘bullies’? ‘Stop bean meanies and let them alone’ - this isn't the school ground and they are fuelling a dangerous cult like mentality. It needs to be discussed.

[HopeMumsnet]

Hi all,
Just a reminder of our guidelines old and new. Civility uppermost at all times, please, in order that we can continue to host this important discussion. We've deleted the posts with the links to Amazon reviews as we don't feel they were in the spirit of MN.

[Bowlofbabelfish]

jazz - parental alienation is a technique used by abusers and cults. Cafcass consider parental alienation to be a form of child abuse in itself. Cults use it to isolate people.

Abusive men use isolation from family support structures to control women.

For fox and owl to promote this so blithely is concerning. They are equating a parent’ concern for the child with the parent abusing the child. That is not OK. We do not become good parents by giving our children everything they want instantaneously. We give them what they need and if what they want is damaging to them then out duty is to protect them from it.

Parents have a legal duty of care towards children. For a parent to blindly affirm and push a child towards permanent medication and surgery when they suspect another cause is anderiliction of that duty.

For that paragraph on parental alienation alone, this book should be criticised strongly. It is grooming. It’s also very worrying when seen in the light of named person legislation, which would allow non qualified people to remove parental rights.

[RockyFlintstone]

What Bowlofbabelfish just said.

[LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD]

Will they be there to pick up the pieces when a child hits the buffers and has alienated themselves from family and friends? No here’s a clue ‘ker-ching!’.

[FloralBuntingIsObnoxious]

Yes. It's tempting to look at them and see a pair of faintly ridiculous and dull people attempting to make themselves interesting with hyper wokeness, and sharing that with a group of young people also concerned about wokeness. It doesn't seem especially threatening, just odd.

But they are in a position of significant influence, and their methods, laid out in this published work, are revealed to be extremely sinister, and I think we shouldn't dismiss them as quirky egotists, even though they are that too.

[NotANotMan]

Do these people have jobs?

For Fox and Owl being trans is their job. It's lucrative.

[R0wantrees]

Stop being bullies and leave them alone.

Fox and Owl are adults with considerable media and political influence both in UK and Iceland.

They are promoted as 'role models' for vulnerable children questioning their gender identity and have written a book specifically marketed as a 'survival guide' for teenagers.

As identified in the recent GIDS report, trans rights activists are affecting Safeguarding frameworks intended to protect children and young people.

Fox and Owl have demonstrated repeatedly that they do not understand Safeguarding.
Parents and adults who do understand Safeguarding will of course interrogate and identify the Safeguarding concerns with a book deliberately marketed at vulnerable children.


Sunday Times, 'Staff at trans clinic fear damage to children as activists pile on pressure'
(extract)
"The report was compiled late last year by David Bell, then staff governor, whose role was to present staff concerns. It says some children “take up a trans identity as a solution” to “multiple problems such as historic child abuse in the family, bereavement . . . homophobia and a very significant incidence of autism spectrum disorder” after being “coached” online and by trans activist groups.

The true histories of “highly disturbed or complex” child patients were not properly explored by Gids clinicians struggling with “huge and unmanageable caseloads” and afraid of being accused of transphobia if they questioned the “rehearsed” surface presentation. The report says the concerns voiced by staff are shared by Sonia Appleby, who is in charge of safeguarding at the trust.

Some youngsters were referred for puberty-blocking hormones — which are usually followed at 16 by cross-sex hormones causing irreversible change and lower fertility — after just one session, the report says. The trust denied this.

Examples of cases in the report include a girl from a family with a history of abuse of females. The mother’s anxiety about having a daughter was transmitted to her child, who resolved to change gender. Another girl felt “deeply guilty” after her brother died tragically, so she decided to give her parents “their son back” by changing gender. Some openly homophobic parents sought transition for their children because they were gay.

In other cases, uncomfortable feelings that are normal for adolescents are being “relabelled as to do with wishing to change gender, a position . . . which the service is unable to challenge” Gids has “close relationships with organisations that are identified as part of the pro-trans lobby such as Gendered Intelligence and Mermaids, and [went] to some lengths to placate them,” the report says." (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children-as-activists-pile-on-pressure-c5k655nq9?shareToken=14ca44214d620680c9d1898b96492582

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3509817-Times-16-2-1-9-Staff-at-trans-clinic-fear-damage-to-children


If there's any bullying happening its by those who continually attempt to prevent and curtail women on Mumsnet FWR discussing Safeguarding concerns.

[R0wantrees]

A scary amount of 5 ⭐️ from people who profess to be professionals and run clubs for poor teenage sods.

Many youth support groups are run by male transpeople who do not understand Safeguarding and have no previous youth work experience.

It seems that with regards children who question their gender identity usual safeguards and scope of support availableare not in place.

This can have serious implications as described in the article recently published by 4th WaveNow:

'My Trans Youth Group Experience with Morgan Page'
January 26, 2019
by GNC-centric (GNC-centric is a detransitioned dysphoric lesbian. She lived as a trans man for most of her teen years in Canada. For many of those years she attended book readings and lectures on gender and LGBT events, and studied queer ideology. She now uses social media to speak critically about the harms she witnessed and experienced as a member of the transgender community.)

(extract)
"Morgan didn’t present herself as someone to emulate, but as someone to share her trans experiences with us. She spoke of her time as a teen prostitute, her SRS, her art, her writing, and her connections in the queer community. I think most of the teens saw her as someone to just give us advice and support, since she could recommend which clinics or doctors to see to start HRT and tell you what you needed to say to doctors so they’d sign off on SRS. She’d talk about what to expect after SRS. She knew the MTF side personally, but she also was intimate with a fair number of trans men so she told us about the FTM side too. At the time, to me, she seemed like the magic key to accessing all the medical transition resources I wanted. This was a trans support group, so one might assume this was normal—and it may have been for such a gathering—but in retrospect, I find elements of this concerning.

Unsurprisingly, most of the teens seemed to be there without their parents’ knowledge (as I was), but there was unquestioning support for all of them to medically transition as soon as they wanted. There was one male nonbinary who complained about how they had to perform more femininity in order for their doctor to get them a prescription for estrogen. To us in the group, this doctor was evil for trying to deny our friend what they needed. Looking back now, the only thing that made this person “trans” was their clothing and nail polish. They made no attempt to pass as female, so I understand why a doctor might have been hesitant.

One of the most memorable experiences I had there was when I was 16 and had brought my 15-year-old non-trans female friend with me. We were hanging out, talking about the usual stuff, when Morgan mentioned she was going to be a judge at the Porn Awards that night and invited my friend and I to go with her for free. We said no—I knew right away I would probably see penises, and that would make my dysphoria worse. At that point in my life I had only seen porn once, and since then had only talked to porn actors and cam girls in the queer/trans community online. I honestly thought it was all empowering and fun. Still, my gut reaction was “no,” thank god.

Morgan’s personal life would often come up. This wasn’t a problem in and of itself, but I believe it normalized some harmful behaviour for us younger people. She would talk about when she was a teen and had a 30 year old boyfriend, then one of the teen FTMs would chime in how they had an adult boyfriend. She would talk about the drugs she did as a teen—weed, coke, poppers, etc; people would chime in about doing drugs in high school. She would talk about her time as a prostitute/sex worker, and others would accept this as a normal part of most MTFs’ lives. It’s one thing to be open about these topics so teens can discuss them without fear or shame, but another to present them as typical behaviour for trans people" (continues)

concludes:
"Honestly, my friends and I thought we might find help for our dysphoria, help understanding how trans identities and sexual orientation intersect, and yes, how to get HRT & SRS. Dysphoric and gender-nonconforming kids and teens need support groups that help address their everyday problems, without automatically being labeled as trans. In retrospect, that group was a breeding ground for predators and narcissistic trans males, with trans females discouraged from pointing this out on account of their “masc privilege”. At the end of the day, I think the members of the group internalized the prioritizing of MTFs and the silencing of FTMs, a mindset that now permeates almost all of the LGBT community."

4thwavenow.com/tag/morgan-page/

[R0wantrees]

For fox and owl to promote this so blithely is concerning. They are equating a parent’ concern for the child with the parent abusing the child. That is not OK. We do not become good parents by giving our children everything they want instantaneously. We give them what they need and if what they want is damaging to them then out duty is to protect them from it.

Parents have a legal duty of care towards children. For a parent to blindly affirm and push a child towards permanent medication and surgery when they suspect another cause is anderiliction of that duty.

See also similar recent comments by prominant Trans activists Munroe Bergorf in response to serious Safeguarding concerns about the 10 year old boy who performed in an adult strip club as 'Desmond is Amazing'.
Bergdorf's response demonstrated a failure to understand both Safeguarding and parenting responsibilities.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3512177-Julia-Long-asking-Munro-Bergdorf-about-child-exploitation

Object! article by HANNAH HARRISON identifies very serious concerns about the risks to children and young people by failures in safeguarding frameworks within the trans / Queer community.
www.objectnow.org/news/2019/1/15/trans-kids-paedophilia-in-drag?

[Bowlofbabelfish]

It sort of sets up a trap, almost. A mother has a duty of care, but the systems are being altered to make it impossible to prevent harm without the mother committing an offence.

We seem to be creating a social and legal climate where women are going to be unable to legally protect their children. if you speak up about the man in the guide pack, the mixed sex loos at work, the fact you feel your child is perhaps autistic or being groomed online then you’re going to be at best demonised socially but at worst, youre going to have your parental duties circumvented or removed. Named person legislation, austerity, safeguarding exceptions... they are all converging on one point. That point is removing a parent’s ability to protect their child. the burden will fall disproportionately on women, I think, as more are primary carers, but of course this affects dads too.

I would love to see one of the journalists like Gillighan explore this specific point.

[SisterWendyBuckett]

We seem to be creating a social and legal climate where women are going to be unable to legally protect their children.

This.

[R0wantrees]

A mother has a duty of care to support their child with unconditional love

A parent (or those with parental responsibility) has a duty of care towards the safety of their child/ren.
This is central to the Safeguarding framework.