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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

And then they came for the heterosexual men

108 replies

EweSurname · 15/02/2019 04:40

I Asked My Crushes Why They Won't Sleep with Me

When a straight guy says he is not into me, nor other trans women, I feel butthurt–emotionally and, unfortunately, not physically.

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/3kgvab/transgender-sex-chasers-cisgender-men

OP posts:
drspouse · 15/02/2019 08:10

Apparently that's not what they mean but if you're a feminine man who's denying they are a feminine man, I'm not surprised if they also deny they are attracted to men.

ComputerSaysMo · 15/02/2019 08:14

What they don't seem to realise is that when these men can't come up with reasons not to sleep with them, it's not because they can't think of anything, it's because they're being polite.

And this happens to natal girls who ask their het male friends why they don’t fancy them, too. God, I’m glad I’m not 20 anymore...

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 15/02/2019 08:15

Sadly, this is where trans people are finding themselves the victims of their own pressure campaign. They're now discovering that they can make our society obediently chant TWAW, but they just can't force it to actually believe it.

Having said that, I genuinely hope the author of this article finds happiness with someone.

andyoldlabour · 15/02/2019 08:18

"They're now discovering that they can make our society obediently chant TWAW"

Well you can strike me off the list of "chanters" for a start, and I suspect plenty of other folks as well.
Most ordinary folk aren't even aware that this is happening.

ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles · 15/02/2019 08:27

Well you can strike me off the list of "chanters" for a start, and I suspect plenty of other folks as well.
Most ordinary folk aren't even aware that this is happening.

Well yes, I'm not chanting it either. Nor is anyone really from this forum. But the silencing tactics have been largely successful amongst those who are in important policy-making or influential positions in our society (politicians, police, teachers, doctors). The point I'm making is that we know most of them don't actually believe in any of it, but they've been intimidated into implementing self-id/affirmation.

dragoning · 15/02/2019 08:28

Desire is not enforceable, nor can it conform to our politics.

The author knows what the situation is. And is having trouble accepting it.

MrsScamander · 15/02/2019 08:29

"I feel butthurt-emotionally, unfortunately not physically"

Eww Envy

Iused2BanOptimist · 15/02/2019 08:29

What they don't seem to realise is that when these men can't come up with reasons not to sleep with them, it's not because they can't think of anything, it's because they're being polite.

Just what I was thinking. Also they were being extremely kind and tolerant. Faced with that level of coercion ghosting would be my most polite response. But probably not until after I'd been brutally honest.

TortoiseLettuce · 15/02/2019 08:35

I find it unpleasant to refer to people as slappable or punchable. It carries connotations of violence.

buckingfrolicks · 15/02/2019 08:36

Omg. Never seen that site before so I read a couple more and found this gem

And then they came for the heterosexual men
NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/02/2019 08:38

'To be clear, whatever the indecipherable mechanics of male lust may be, it’s not that boys as a category won’t fuck me. (Grindr begs to differ.'

Do straight women tend to join grindr?

I thought it was a hook up site mainly for gay men?

If the writer is a straight woman, why are they on grindr?

I mean you can't have it both ways.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/02/2019 08:38

Well you can do what you like obv but it's not logical at all if TWAW

NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/02/2019 08:40

What's a lambskin condom?

Don't get the reference.

That would be thicker than what condoms are made of.

Confused

Even more confused

R0wantrees · 15/02/2019 08:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

nauticant · 15/02/2019 08:47

Well yes, I'm not chanting it either.

I took your point to mean ThinkIveFoundYourMarbles that although you might be able to get people to chant TWAW, that's at a societal level. It happens because of the social pressure. On a personal level most all people don't actually believe it. They're being polite or just keeping their heads down for a quiet life.

What you can impose at a societal level doesn't necessarily filter down to the personal. Which in a way reflects gender identity ideology: impose it top down and once people have spent enough time complying they'll eventually come to believe it.

R0wantrees · 15/02/2019 08:56

Do straight women tend to join grindr?

I thought it was a hook up site mainly for gay men?

If the writer is a straight woman, why are they on grindr?

There are growing numbers of young hetrosexual females who identify as 'gay boys' as well as transmen.

October 2018 article in GayStar News about female transperson being asked to leave a single sex (male) space:
(extract)
"A London gay sauna kicked out a trans man for not having a penis.

26-year-old Jason Smith (not his real name) identifies as bisexual and says he’s a ‘very passable trans man’.

He decided to go to the Sailors Sauna in Limehouse in London’s East on Monday night (29 October) with a friend.

The transgender man was a little unsure about going to the sex-on-premises venue so he checked their website beforehand for any trans-specific policies." (continues)

www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans-man-sauna/#gs.Cws8Puv5
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410716-Transman-kicked-out-of-gay-sauna

QuentinWinters · 15/02/2019 09:01

Kalinka I also wondered why trans men were excluded from her dating pool

The next article is enlightening about this.

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/kzd8yx/how-transgender-women-top-during-sex

The author is preop but likes being penetrated ("bottoming"). So men who have sex with the author are being asked to have anal. A lot of straight men would be very unhappy about being asked to have anal sex with someone with a penis.

The article is also very interesting as I think it shows that the reality of sex as a woman is never considered by these people. It's all about "femininity"

E.g. Octavia, a New York–based sex educator in her 20s, tops (penetrates) every which way, with people of all genders. She feels empowered in her femininity while topping a man because she feels she is fucking with his masculinity in more ways than one. She thinks something to the tune of, “ Take that girl-dick! Only a real man can handle this much woman.”

Or For Grace, a 21-year-old Baltimore trans woman, being with another woman was the introduction to topping that she needed..... “I am appreciating my femininity when I top as a lesbian. I’m being a strong and supportive woman,” she messages me. “I’m holding my femininity, not suppressing it.”

It's a very alien read to me. But then I'm a boring vanilla middle aged cis woman.

thatdamnwoman · 15/02/2019 09:01

Omg this doesn’t read as if they are just talking about terminology post transition. I suspect some of these men are sexually attracted to other men pre transition but suppress it until they are trans women and then label it at ‘heterosexual’ sex.

Isn't this a gay man who has internalised his homophobia so deeply that he's contemptuous of other gay men who will happily have sex with him — the chasers — and wants a relationship with a straight man who'll affirm that he's a woman? It sounds as if any straight guy will do and I pity the poor room-mate, constantly being hit on.

Katvonfelttipeyebrows · 15/02/2019 09:03

Heterosexuality is what it is eh? Shocking.
Homosexuality is what it is eh? Shocking

I do feel pity that so many people have been brainwashed to think sexuality is fluid (for everyone).

The person in the article needs to find someone who's bisexual. I feel sorry they've been sold a lie.

CoachBombay · 15/02/2019 09:04

I think I just did the biggest eye roll of my life.

You can't force people to be attracted to you! I mean I'm not emotionally butthurt because Anthony Joshua won't mount me...

My god it's 9am and I have already had enough internet for the day!

LetsSplashMummy · 15/02/2019 09:11

I can't understand how this person still had male room mates. This suggests there wasn't any real, medical or official transitioning. I'm not saying they should have had a female room mate, that would be worse, but it reads like they just dressed up sometimes and got into peoples' beds inappropriately.

I do feel slightly sorry for young people who haven't been told they are making themselves a less attractive dating option. I feel sorry for young people throwing their fertility away on the promise of a womb implant. There are real problems with informed consent (and the bed behaviour suggests other types of consent as well).

I think this is quite a good article, it works through the process from "shag me or be transphobic," to the realisation that other people aren't obliged to validate you sexually, even if they are an ally. The author realised that getting people to say TWAW doesn't change who they are attracted to.

RolandDeschainsGilly · 15/02/2019 09:14

Still has the male entitlement to sex with whoever he finds attractive Hmm

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 15/02/2019 09:21

Anyone else want to go and live on a remote little island somewhere?

ClaraMatilda · 15/02/2019 09:40

Yes, it reads exactly like an entitled man who doesn't understand why everyone doesn't want to have sex with him.

Particularly bizarre is the past where he writes off men who do want to have sex with him, because it's a kink for them. It's all about this fantasy of being desired in a certain way.

And "butthurt" is just a horrible term.

Datun · 15/02/2019 10:08

That does seem like a bit of a losing proposition, doesn’t it? Rejecting men who specifically fancy you and only going for the ones who don’t.

I can't not remember if it was Blanchard, but someone like him who said AGPs transition for sex, because they are in lust with themself as a woman. But so do HSTSs. They transition to have sex with straight men.

I'm not sure how that fits in with gender dysphoria.

But one thing I do know, and something that has become abundantly evident, is what an utterly compelling, driving force sex seems to be for so many.

And yes, the assumption that one is entitled to it. The author even wished that sex was a 'right'.

It's extraordinary how you can want to have sex, even though you know the other person doesn't want you. I'm sure most women don't feel this way.