Son says he wants to be a girl - supportive GC advice, please

[DoraBastable]

I am GC and encourage my kids to express themselves however they want, I don't impose gender norms and we openly talk about the gender binary and how stupid it is. My youngest son is 6 and has said off and on for a few years that he wants to be a girl. At times he has cried about it. I always explain to him that he can do all the things that girls can do - he can wear dresses and make up if he likes, or trousers and short hair, I give examples of all the different hobbies and jobs he can have, saying being a boy doesn't stop him from doing any of those things. He does wear nail varnish and colourful and pretty clothes when he wants to, but hasn't said he wants to wear skirts etc. He also has dolls to play with, loves dancing, loves babies and drawing and typical 'girl' stuff and this is encouraged and valued. Nobody ever tells him these things are wrong.

He says he still just wants to be a girl. When asked why, he can't explain, although he said once 'I want to be pretty like a girl'.

He is very young, and this is just a hunch, but I think he might be gay. My eldest son is gay. I think my 6 year old might also be on the autistic spectrum, although this doesn't cause him enough difficulties to push for a diagnosis. I know both of these things can encourage a belief that one is trans. In my more hopeful moments I can imagine him growing up to be a well-adjusted (possibly gay) man who likes being pretty and expressing himself in a feminine way. However I am scared as he gets older he will encounter trans ideology and get sucked into believing he 'is' a girl or can become a girl. How can I a) guard against this type of thing and b) comfort him in the meantime when he gets upset about being a boy?

Please don't try to convince me that I should be allowing him to believe he can become a girl. I'd love to hear from GC feminists who feel, as I do, that gender is a load of shit.

The toys and games he plays and the clothes he wears are not what makes hi boy or girl, just biology. What you like doesn’t make you a boy or a girl. It’s orthogonal. Irrelevant. except that some people think it’s sg ifcant which makes people doubt themselves

OP, it may be good to mention that it’s impossible to literally become the opposite sex, though he’s certainly welcome to pretend to be a female person (woman/girl) as often as he wants.

Rupert Everett recently spoke out about how he was an extremely effeminate young boy and how he thought he’d be transed if he was born today. Maybe reading that will help, I bet you could google it.

I am only sharing a personal story, I don’t have any specialized training or anything in this area.

My brother younger brother started saying he wanted to be a girl when he was 4/5. He would say “I want to a woman when I grow up” (he never really said he wanted to be a girl now). Often he also wanted to be a woman of a different ethnicity (seemed dependent on a friend’s ethnicity, or what ethnic food he liked). This was back in the 80s, and like you, he was given freedom to wear what he wanted, engage in hobbies he liked, paint his nails along with my sister. He got his ears pierced when my sister got hers done too. He was never told he could be a woman, or that he could not be a woman. He was just told he could play and like whatever he wanted as a boy. He kind of stopped saying he wanted to grow up to be a woman around 8-9 I think?

At 17/18 he came out as gay. Which was not a surprise to any of us family, really. He is his 30s now, happily married to his partner of over 16 years. And he still likes what he likes. And has no desire to a woman (and does not identify as trans). I have talked to him about this and he says his feelings then were somewhat a confusion as to what it meant if he liked things girls liked, or a bit of “attraction” to what he saw women have as adults (in that childlike way). He specifically wanted to be a “Chinese woman” because Chinese food was his favourite at the time and his best friend was Chinese. He also loved our mom and wanted to be like her. He loved his sisters and wanted to either imitate them, or share things with them.

I cringe to think what pressure would have been on my family for him to “trans” if he was a child today. I think you are doing all the right things here. You are encouraging and supporting him to not think he can only do certain things as a girl. The challenge is going to be when others try and influence him. Do you have any adult male friends - gay ones, or ones who may like more *feminine” hobbies or dress that may be a good mentor to bring into his life?

Sorry for typos and missing words such in prior post. Damn phone. I also meant to specify that for mentors, I specifically mean men who still identify as men yet like feminine things (and of course can also like masculine things) so he sees that he can and still is a boy/man no matter what he likes.

And of course I use feminine and masculine in the social sense of these things, the end goal is really to show him that such characterizations should be meaningless as to what sex you are, and should not even be characterized with such dichotomy - but as a child still that latter is maybe a little too much to grasp yet.

I don't know if this has been said but if he wants to paint his nails and wear make-up, what sort of 6 year old girls is he mixing with?

I recall one little boy, albeit 18 or so years ago now, who spent a lot of time in princess dresses. He never painted nails or wore make-up because the cohort he was in did not include 6 year olds who did.

Nobody batted an eyelid really, even then. He was a lovely lad and is now a bigger, very grounded, gay young man. His parents just loved him for who he was. I think he grew out of the pink princess frocks (publicly at least when he went up to the juniors).

I don't know if this has been said but if he wants to paint his nails and wear make-up, what sort of 6 year old girls is he mixing with?

We have no proof he does want to do this. It was a suggestion made by me, as we couldn't define his idea of "pretty".

Thanks so much for all the posts.

"Sexuality basically boils down to who do you want to have sex with, if anyone. That is way beyond the comprehension of a tween, especially a boy."

I don't agree on this one - personally as a young girl I knew that I was interested in men and boys. I had a lot of romantic feelings about certain men, you could even call them sexual feelings, although obviously I didn't want to have sex at that point. A friend of mine who is gay says she didn't work it out until she was in her 20s, but looking back, she was always attracted to women when she was little, and would watch certain actresses etc with great ardour. I think it's harder for children to realise they are gay because our society is so heteronormative. But the feeling of being different can be there from a very young age, and for feminine gay men or masculine lesbians, the feeling of identifying with the behaviour or clothing etc of the other gender. I don't know if you know the comic or the play 'Fun Home' by Alison Bechdel, but she talks about having an epiphany as a young girl when she sees a butch lesbian for the first time and something inside her is mesmerised.

It's very common to have childhood crushes on the opposite sex to who you ultimately end up being attracted to though isn't it? I wonder if there's a degree of confirmation bias - is that the right term? So if you know someone's gay your attention is drawn to the things in their childhood which fit that pattern.

Am pretty sure I'm asexual.

I had a childhood crush on Audrey Hepburn, specifically her facial symmetry, or asymmetry, her right eye was higher than her left.
Although thinking about it, it's more of a weird autistic thing than a crush.

I don't know if this has been said but if he wants to paint his nails and wear make-up, what sort of 6 year old girls is he mixing with?

It’s not uncommon these days for 6 year olds to have “quality time” with mum doing girly stuff like getting nails done or shopping. Pamper parties or makeover parties are fairly normal too.

Hair/make up/nails are usually on 6 yo radar from observing their mums. Heck i’ve even heard 6 year olds talk about fake tanning.

O/p can you take to youtube and find him some role models?

You are probably going to need to go back to the 80’s and 90’s but adam ant, marilyn, boy george, brian molko (sigh), robert smith- all definitely male men who wore dresses, make up, and celebrated their feminine sides.

I am sure there are plenty of others too, in non music areas. Some ballet? Show him men doing “girl” things. The swan lake with men, for example.

If you can show him famous men like this and normalise his likes and preferences?

I think the best advice has been given already; tell him it’s impossible for him to become a girl but that you love him and his interests without question and that as he gets older it will get easier for him.

My best friend at primary school grew up to be a gay man and my sister to be a lesbian. Both would almost certainly have been put on a trans path nowadays due to their interests and the way they liked to dress. I agree that it’s really sad.

When it comes to playing pretending you’re a girl, I don’t think I’d have a problem of the child was pretending to be a specific person, like a character, whereas saying ‘I’m being a girl’ because you’re wearing a dress or looking after a doll or something is more problematic because it reinforces the gender stereotype.

As a child (no gender dyaphoria or saying ‘I’m a boy’) I often pretended to be specific male characters, or characters of indeterminate sex (‘pirate’), up to around aged 10 when I stopped playing pretend. I more often pretended to me female characters or versions of myself though.

Perhaps encouraging him to be a particular character rather than generic ‘girl’ would help him separate the gender stereotypes from the actual stuff he wants to play.

I have a now adult daughter who had what is now known as ROGD and live 'as a boy' during her teens.
You have my sympathy.There's no right way to approach it firstly.
Go to transgender trend & gather all of the info you can.I'd avoid any chairty that preaches positive affirmation personally.
Have you considered a comorbid condition-ADHD,depression or anxiety?
As others have said desistance rate vary from study to study but average out around 80%.
Only time will tell I'm afraid.
Our own experiance was before the madness of trans activism really set in fortunately.We supported her as best we could neither affirming or denying her feelings.
I would say (I'll probably get told I'm wrong here) check their internet use,then check again-privacy be damed frankly.
I'm not going to give details but my daughter was being groomed on the internet by a trans identified male who told her,very basically,that they could have a 'relationship' if she was a boy.This only came out in counselling seessions months down the line.A nightmare of police etc. ensued.My daughter still identified as a boy for over a year beyond this point but desisted in her own time.
I still feel so guilty but I wouldn't hesitate to check thoroughly.

Keep it simple. 6 year olds will go on about anything that gets your attention and you might unwittingly play i to it. ‘You’re you and I love you to the moon. As you grow up we’ll talk all about you and the kind of person you grow to be. That is up to you, when you are an adult, until then I am here to help you. If you have any questions because something is not clear to you, you come to me and dad, right? Now what would you like to play.’

"if he wants to paint his nails and wear make-up, what sort of 6 year old girls is he mixing with?"

This is quite a judgy question. He does want to paint his nails, and we do them. This is because he sees me do mine and his older brother likes having his done as well. It's nothing to do with his peers, but it's rather sniffy to ask 'what sort of girl' would be painting their nails aged 6.

I don't know if he wants to wear make up as he's never mentioned it. I suggested I might ask him, in a bid to find out what it is that appeals about being female rather than male.

Thanks again for all of the thoughts and advice. All being read and considered.

OP I haven't read the whole thread but it is society that doesn't accept feminine little boys, your family seem to be doing a great job. It's understandable that outside your home he sees it would be much easier to be a girl with his interests and would be even celebrated for being "pretty' etc.

I knew a young boy like this who was always accepted and celebrated I asked my dd who is still in contact with him and she said he hasn't confided his sexuality to her so she doesn't know. However, he is 15 and not identifying as transgender.

Its highly likely this will pass..my son told me he as a dinosaur when he was 3!

I have mentioned this before on here, but the staff at his nursery actually approached me one day and asked if I thought he might be trans Because he liked to put on princess dresses at dressing up time and that. Bloody ridiculous, no he just likes what he likes..this does not mean there is something fucking wrong with him because he is not a walking stereotype.