Jazz Jennings - 'My vagina looked SO bad that my mom, sister, and the surgeons wouldn't even let me look at it'

[QuietContraryMary]

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092971725820780544
"My vagina looked SO bad that my mom, sister, and the surgeons wouldn't even let me look at it. Eventually, I used a compact mirror to get a peak and all I could do was laugh. If only you guys knew.."

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092971983996895232

"In life, everything is about attitude & perspective. Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever experienced, I knew that one day I would be fully healed & recovered. I had to adopt the mindset of my future self & know in my heart that everything would be ok."

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092969159753850881

"I'm glad that this rare complication happened to me rather than to another trans individual. With the love & support of my family, it makes it easier for me to conquer a challenge like this. I can't imagine how devasting it would be for someone without that support system."

Jazz is talking about the multiple surgeries caused in large part because of the use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones.

The 'devastating' effects are what Mermaids are campaigning for for thousands of UK children.

Poor Jazz I really hope that in the future they have access to all of the support they need

Surely the tip of a penis cannot give anything approaching a female orgasm? It doesn't even give a male orgasm in its natural state.

This must be a myth put about by men who have no understanding or experience of the female orgasm.

TinselAngel
Do you mean for penile inversion surgery? I guess the thinking is some form of sexual pleasure can be gained from it so it is kept and used in the neovagina construction.
In Jazz's case the penis was that of a child and Jazz has reported no sexual feeling. Jazz didn't have enough material to work with, a circumcised child penis isn't going to have a lot of skin to make into a neovagina.
All this surgery appears to be aesthetic anyway, it just seems that those who had sexual function before surgery have half a chance of some sexual function afterwards. A lot of the language used around these surgeries is deliberately ambiguous, I think.

I'm just watching the programme now, and whilst doing the surgery, the surgeons said they were using the tip of the penis to create a clitoris, and because of the nerve endings, this means there can be orgasms.

I don't buy this when there's adequate material to work with, let alone in Jazz's case.

Yes sorry I meant in penile inversion surgery they do keep the tip as a neoclitoris, but in a sexually mature male there's likely to be more chance of orgasm, or even pleasurable feelings, than for a male with a child penis, surely?
I don't have a penis so I can't be sure

I saw a programme about male to female 'bottom' surgery and the surgeon said that the head of the penis is made into a clitoris. Apparently there was a higher percentage of orgasm than in a natural clitoris. I don't know if this statistic is still true. But this was in male bodies that had been through puberty. I don't know if a child's penis would be like an adult penis in that way. I have always thought that the ability to orgasm came with sexual maturity through puberty. The whole thing makes me feel uncomfortable as this discussion of a child (until recently) feels really like a paedophilia.

As a clitoris owner familiar with the sensations it can provoke, I just don't see how the grafted tip of a penis can mimic the feelings provided by this organ, which is not just a bobble of skin.

TinselAngel, what is that picture? 😳

That's a whole clitoris, Mice. It extends round the sides of the vaginal opening. It isn't just the teeny bit at the top.

The clitoris!

I'm embarrassed that I couldn't tell. It was just so graphic my brain rejected it!! I didn't realise it went all the way round.

I find the term ‘neo vagina’ quite creepy

I don't see how the tip of a penis can make an orgasm. What precisely would be orgasming? It's not attached to any of the stuff a woman has all the feelings in.

If you stroke the tip of my finger, I don't have an orgasm.

Pp, I think there are more than 2 sexes but they're genetic abnormalities and not as common (after all hermaphrodites have always existed). A good friend of mine is struggling because of all the anti-trans, anti-nonbinary at the moment because she was raised a boy, and since transitioned. But actually was born with both sets of sex organs, though neither developed properly. She was registered as a boy because a penis is kind of easier to point out. Then suffered through puberty with developing breasts.

But I never realised that about the puberty the brain goes through. I used to err on the side of blockers so a child would have more time to think about the decision (rather than being rushed into transitioning) but if the blockers prevent their brains from maturing how are they ever going to give informed consent to anything?

I don't agree a lack of sexual pleasure means sex with them is wrong, I've struggled with sexual pleasure due to trauma but wouldn't want to be stopped from doing it, when I give it willingly to a partner (obviously would discount coercion). But this would mean due to their child brain they couldn't consent, pleasure or none.

That's horrific!

I think perhaps therapy to help children cope with puberty would be better? As in, 'regardless of what you choose to do as an adult, you need to let your mind fully develop to be able to make that choice'. And puberty is tough so if counselling was available more girls especially would manage it better and perhaps there'd be lowered rates of de-transitioning.

Fwiw DD has never wanted to be a boy even for pretend but I'd probably reply to it with 'i love you whoever you are' just as I do when she's Everest from paw patrol or Starla from Blaze and the monster machines. No need for any kind of indoctrination.

Also @MiceSqueak (and I'm not saying it is okay, not at all) children can experience orgasm pre-puberty. I did when I was abused and it was a huge source of shame because I thought you weren't supposed to be able to and that's why I was abused.

The issue is that your mind isn't ready for it at all which is why the lack of brain development disturbs me so much now I know it's a thing.

Kismetjayn sorry that happened to you

@FlyingOink I'm doing much better :)

It's just the kind of thing no one ever talks about, but children should be
free to reach the emotional maturity levels needed to manage this kind of stuff before it happens. Thinking how puberty blockers affect the brain has completely changed my stance on all of this.

I'm just watching the programme now, and whilst doing the surgery, the surgeons said they were using the tip of the penis to create a clitoris, and because of the nerve endings, this means there can be orgasms.

These are male surgeons, who've never had a female orgasm. How the hell do they know?

And yes, the tip of a prepubescent penis is, in terms of surface area, tiny. A clitoris isn't. And there are double the number of nerve endings on a clitoris, than on a penis, and I think that's a fully grown penis.

This all feels so much like let's cross our fingers and hope, with so much spin, it's difficult to believe.

Kismetjayn

Thinking how puberty blockers affect the brain has completely changed my stance on all of this.

Yes, indeed. Where are the studies? Where is the evidence?

Precisely Datun, anybody body who says a grafted penis tip, mature or otherwise, can provoke anything akin to a female orgasm is either mistaken (due to having no idea what a female orgasm feels like because they're a man), or lying.

Kismetjayn thank you for sharing your experience as I didn't know. I agree with you about the lack of brain development and maturity. I also think that in Jazz's case it is exploitation of a vulnerable child. Some things should stay private and there doesn't seem to be any privacy left for her. It makes me think of a modern day freak show, because that is how some people view her. Also how much money do the family make from the tv programme? If she wasn't trans then there would be no show.

And as for this:

Apparently there was a higher percentage of orgasm than in a natural clitoris.

This is just autogynaphilia writ large.

Precisely Datun, anybody body who says a grafted penis tip, mature or otherwise, can provoke anything akin to a female orgasm is either mistaken (due to having no idea what a female orgasm feels like because they're a man), or lying.

I'm going hot and cold with rage over this.

This kid has never had a fucking orgasm. Never had an erection. How on earth is cutting bits off and re-locating them, with all the attendant scar tissue, going to actually improve their chances?

I can't watch the program tinsel. Is this explained, at all?

No it's not explained at all. Possibly because it's complete bullshit. It makes me angry too.