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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jazz Jennings - 'My vagina looked SO bad that my mom, sister, and the surgeons wouldn't even let me look at it'

329 replies

QuietContraryMary · 06/02/2019 22:06

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092971725820780544
"My vagina looked SO bad that my mom, sister, and the surgeons wouldn't even let me look at it. Eventually, I used a compact mirror to get a peak and all I could do was laugh. If only you guys knew.."

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092971983996895232

"In life, everything is about attitude & perspective. Even though my vagina falling apart was the hardest thing I ever experienced, I knew that one day I would be fully healed & recovered. I had to adopt the mindset of my future self & know in my heart that everything would be ok."

twitter.com/JazzJennings__/status/1092969159753850881

"I'm glad that this rare complication happened to me rather than to another trans individual. With the love & support of my family, it makes it easier for me to conquer a challenge like this. I can't imagine how devasting it would be for someone without that support system."

Jazz is talking about the multiple surgeries caused in large part because of the use of puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones.

The 'devastating' effects are what Mermaids are campaigning for for thousands of UK children.

OP posts:
calpop · 07/02/2019 19:12

And no estrogen receptors in the brain presumably. Its the lack of brain development that concerns me. Even rudimentary biology at GCSE level teaches you how important the cascade of hormones is at puberty to turn your brain into an adult-thinking and functioning person. Surely doctors especially endocrinologist know this. I dont know how they can be so irresponsible to just bypass that whole process and hope for the best.

NotANotMan · 07/02/2019 19:13

Jazz has female secondary sex characteristics such as body fat distribution and breasts
Jazz never went through natural puberty but the female hormones induced physical development

Newbuild · 07/02/2019 19:24

Poor kid Sad The comments on that twitter thread are a bit Hmm though, a lot of vitriol aimed at Jazz. Guess it’s easy to forget that is a real person.
I really hope that jazz finds happiness.

WeRiseUp · 07/02/2019 19:30

And no estrogen receptors in the brain presumably. Its the lack of brain development that concerns me. Even rudimentary biology at GCSE level teaches you how important the cascade of hormones is at puberty to turn your brain into an adult-thinking and functioning person. Surely doctors especially endocrinologist know this. I dont know how they can be so irresponsible to just bypass that whole process and hope for the best.

This is what bothers me too. Jazz's personality resembles a pre-pubescent child much more than an 18 year old. Naive, gullible, trusting, being a bit inappropriate through being unable to see the bigger picture or understand what actually makes adults tick. I find it horrific that adults could collude to keep a child a medically created Peter Pan. I wonder if castrati used to be like this.

WeRiseUp · 07/02/2019 19:31

I was upset by people calling poor Jazz a 'freak' on twitter. Don't they have any compassion?

Iused2BanOptimist · 07/02/2019 20:00

Slight derail but a Dr at work was discussing her new puppy with me today. Said the breeder insisted on having it spayed before sale, so it was done at eight weeks. I thought this couldn't be done before six months to allow for development. Our cat had to be six months, and definitely was on heat once, yowling and scratching to go out and get shagged the bloody tart. I asked if this meant the dog wouldn't lay down bone development and Dr looked a bit worried so I was sorry I said it, but she thought she would have a small dog.

Any vets on here care to comment? Is there anything to learn from veterinary studies?

Datun · 07/02/2019 20:53

Any vets on here care to comment? Is there anything to learn from veterinary studies?

Yes, I'd be interested in this too.

Our dogs have always been done early, and they are always very puppy like. I'm now looking at it a bit askance as if I've done something wrong 🤭

Qcng · 07/02/2019 20:59

What stands out to me is how much talk and focus is on how Jazz's neovagina looks. The pain (emotional and physical) is being completely glossed over.
The way the neovagina was all put together and how it subsequently went wrong sounds agonisingly painful.
Jazz must be high on some very strong painkillers, on top of everything else. Having to deal with even minor cosmetic surgery needs after care, let alone something like this.

Strong painkillers can be seriously addictive.
I really really despair for the future of this child.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 07/02/2019 21:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Qcng · 07/02/2019 21:09

Neutered cats are smaller than fertile cats.

WeRiseUp · 07/02/2019 21:14

Cats also don't grow their full fangs and sport their sabre-tooth glory when they yawn if they are neutered before puberty.

ChattyLion · 07/02/2019 21:41

Seriously what kind of politics would support creating adults with pre-pubertal minds and bodies?

righthandedandlefteyed · 07/02/2019 21:43

Anecodtally...

We had a spaniel that came to us from a rescue and was speyed before coming to us. They said she was around 6 months but turned out she was probably much younger.

She was a very delicate thing, never grew to full size. I always thought it was because she was the 'runt' (she had other health problems). She actually died young(ish) of vaginal cancer :(

righthandedandlefteyed · 07/02/2019 21:45

By contrast the beast of a spaniel we have now (same breed) was speyed after first season and is hugely robust.

Datun · 07/02/2019 21:49

Surely, surely surely the stunted intellectual growth must be noticed in these kids.

How do they measure it? IQ tests before and after?

Dear lord. This just gets worse as it unfolds.

NotBadConsidering · 07/02/2019 22:00

I think this thread is right up there with the most important there is on this issue. I would like it pinned to the top. And every time any TRA/Mermaids rep/woke politician/Guardian journalist or similar tries to claim that kids should be affirmed medically, they should have to read what has happened to Jazz and justify it all - the stunted maturation, the sexual dysfunction, the lifelong misery - and explain how, in any way shape or form, they consider this a good thing.

IHaveBrilloHair · 07/02/2019 22:04

I've just watched after reading this thread, I'm horrified, I'd have had no idea if I hadn't read the background here.
The Mum saying it's like dealing with nappies, No it really isn't, but it also struck me as infantalising Jazz, like they are the "different", family pet.
Its awful.

anniehm · 07/02/2019 22:23

Poor kid, I've watched the show and actually she's really convincing as being "born in the wrong body". However I admit that there's a part of me that thinks parental conditioning plus be part of the equation at the preschool age group (when apparently she announced she was a girl.). They said on the last series that the surgery was experimental and that the doctor had only had a couple of other puberty blocked patients.

Hope she's ok.

MrsJamin · 07/02/2019 22:28

According to this article, Jazz Jennings is worth between $200-500K but the family’s net worth could be closer to $5 or $10 million.
What possiblycould have made Jazz's parents want to continue to be filmed to the point where their son would be castrated? Hmm

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 07/02/2019 22:29

I’m certain that if I had decided that DS was born in the ‘wrong’ body then it wouldn’t only take continuous reaffirmation, constant referencing and a network of those who cheerlead you on et voila.

Of course I’m sure DH and everyone else we know have something to say about it and they’d probably have me committed but hey, we aren’t in America.

KittiesInsane · 07/02/2019 22:35

Interesting about early spaying in animals. Cat was spayed at under 10 weeks and is definitely two pilchards short of a picnic.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 07/02/2019 22:43

There are good reasons to delay desexing in dogs, particularly large breed dogs. There is a significant link between early age desexing in large breed male dogs and the development of osteosarcoma.

Dogs desexed early often grow taller than I desexed dogs of the same breed.
There seems to be less evidence of negative impacts on cats, and an experienced vet can safely desex kittens at 1kg.

Of course delay in desexing can have larger implications for populations, which is why rescue animals are routinely desexed early.

theconversation.com/why-decisions-to-desex-male-dogs-just-got-more-complicated-95520

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6070019/

I wrote the comment about early desexed dogs growing taller and it occurred to me to wonder if there had been any work done on the psychology of castrati. As it happens, there has been.

“That “castrati” were particularly tall has been known since antiquity22, even Aristotle observed that “all animals, if operated on when young, become bigger than their unmutilated fellows”23. At the beginning of the XX century, the Skoptzy, a Christian sect practicing male castration, were measured and they appeared to be taller than their peers24.”
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4923859/

And I found this information.

“Although castration did little to damage a castrato's intellect, it did pose serious health and emotional problems otherwise. Most castrati suffered from the effects of developmental hypogonadism, including an infantile penis and underdeveloped prostate. They also had a greater presence of subcutaneous fat than the normal male, as well as fat deposits localized on the hips, buttocks, and breast areas, and also fatty deposits on the eyelids. These excess deposits of fat often caused their skin to appear wrinkled or swollen.

Castrati tended to be volatile, conceited, and almost impossible to get along with. Composer George Frederick Handel’s notorious shouting matches with his castrato Senesino, for instance, were well-known throughout England. Many of the castrati’s well-documented personality disorders were a direct result of their disfigurement, as well as their inability to lead normal sex lives. Despite public admiration for their singing, they were also prone to much ridicule regarding their physical condition.”
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Castrato

The disorder of personality might suggest that children castrated prior to puberty retained the narcissism of children and their lack of emotional stability.

This is just from 15 minutes research - so only guesswork really. But the human endocrine system is such a complex one, interwoven with every other system in the body, that removing one set of hormones and replacing them with another, seems a bit like taking a hammer to a window.

You’ve still got some bits, but the whole thing will never function properly again.

This is a terrible set of irreversible medical experiments being performed upon children without any clear idea of long term consequences.

I’m sure that in a decade we’ll look back in horror at this, in much the same way as we do other kinds of dangerous medical interventions driven by social hysteria.

WeRiseUp · 07/02/2019 22:44

Seriously what kind of politics would support creating adults with pre-pubertal minds and bodies?

Quite.

I feel like @-ing Peter Tatchell to see if he's got any ideas.

ALittleBitofVitriol · 07/02/2019 22:48

I wanted to add to my comment about pitying Jazz. Just in case Jazz or anyone in Jazz's position is hate reading this:

I am sorry for what has been done to you. But you are not ruined. Your life is not over. While there is life, there is hope. You have difficult choices but you do have choices. You are valuable and have more to offer this world than being the trans poster child. You are more than the some of your parts - whatever has been done to those parts - and I hope someone irl who loves you tells you this.

TheLurkingOne · 07/02/2019 23:01

Has anyone already posted this evaluation by an endocrinologist? It just says what you have all been saying. www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/04/21220/ but of course this link may not work for me. ...