Is lingerie empowering to women?

[NeurotrashWarrior]

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/01/30/munroe-bergdorf-female-empowerment-lingerie-trans/?utmsource=Facebook&utmmmedium=Buffer&utmcampaign=PN

Are these the kind of empowering messages our young girls need?

Please by all means promote ways in which gender stereotypes are smashed but I'm not sure lingerie is going to do this.

I'm rather confused by what PN are doing in this article. I'm semi convinced they're double bluffing.

I'd really like this thread to stay please as these messages and discussions are extremely important for young girls and boys. I'm shouting a tad lot more into my cuppa.

How come it’s always used about doing things like burlesque and putting glitter on your tits, and not about not having a beauty regime, having sexual boundaries or telling the patriarchy to fuck off.

Because it is a scam.

Hey feminism is becoming a problem, women are starting to get all kinds of ideas about having more worth than as objects men want to fuck. I know, let's get them back in their place putting their time and energy into appealing to men by telling them that it was their idea in the first place! And that it's feminist! Hahaha classic.

Feminism has been thoroughly hi-jacked.

I don't even think wearing comfortable clothes is empowering. It doesn't give you any power.

There are other things to be said about that and I definitely think that prioritising your own comfort and freedom of movement is positive, liberating even. But not empowering exactly.

"especially in controlling their life and claiming their rights."

"give (someone) the authority or power to do something"

I think we know who is being empowered.

MagicMix, I would say it is for myself because if I am comfortable and appropriately dressed for the task and the weather, I don't need to give a second thought to my attire and can focus on the task confidently.

The kind of lingerie in view here is designed to be in the forefront of the mind while being worn - it's made of flimsy material, it's cut in awkward ways and fastened in places that make it impossible to ignore. You're supposed to think "I am sexy" throughout the experience of wearing it.

The clothes I described don't need to be at the forefront of your mind at all, which means you can be effective in whatever it is you are actually doing as a whole human being, not a fuck doll whose purpose and 'power' is sexyfeels.

Wearing knickers that don’t cause a wedgie is as empowering as it gets for me.

Nobody sees my underwear, it doesn’t even feel breeze on washing line. MB empowering I think is based on look at me in my underwear that is all. To me that is no representation of female empowerment again trying to sell an ‘appearance’.

Comfy kecks that I can be reasonably comfortable using a sanitary towel while wearing, plus a bra that reduces tit wobble and doesn’t cut into my chest, that’s my idea of satisfactory undies. Avoiding discomfort is a baseline expectation, and I don’t think any undies in this range provide that, in fact one could go as far as to say that is a fantasy with these particular undies.

I prefer to take my underwear off when having sex, so it offers nothing there either.

If I’m just a fantasy then I don’t need to be present at all, which suits me just fine, as I’d rather steer clear of nasty, uncomfortable clothing and the people whose interest would depend on me wearing it.

Floral Yeah I think it's liberating to dress for comfort and practicality, certainly. It does stop you getting bogged down in all kinds of nonsense and your description of how 'sexy' clothes hamper women rings very true to me.

It just feels to me that there is a difference between liberating and empowering. Things that I would define as empowering to women are things like education, financial independence, political representation, laws and institutions that protect our rights and interests.

Like last year I stopped shaving. I found this liberating, but I did not find it empowering because my social status is unchanged and it has not affected the factors that disadvantage me due to my sex.

The bras look dis-empowering for women without implants.
All women are fantasy is just gross and reducing women to masturbation props is not at all empowering to me.

But in real life when I find a comfy, supportive bra that looks great and washes well I do feel empowered. Real bras for real boobs are feats of engineering.

MagicMix, well if it helps to clarify what I meant - obviously those things you mentioned are empowering. I fully support that. My point was that the clothes I described would be an adjunct to that, not an unhelpful distraction. I think I'm trying to say that the only clothes which are empowering are the ones which enable women to do all the things on that list.

My day-to-day life improved enormously when I quit thongs in favour of giant-up-to-my-belly-button granny pants.

In the words of Della from Raised by Wolves a thong is ‘a bacterial superhighway from your bum hole to your business’.

Not having BV or thrush is empowering, I guess... but only because having them is disempowering. No one feels powerful with itchy bits.

I find good solid control underwear empowering because I look good in my clothes.
That stuff certain;y wouldn't hold anything up on this body!

I definitely didn't mean to compare the two in a hierarchical way! Both very important, sorry - just rambling about semantics. Liberation is indeed the goal of feminism so I definitely didn't mean to imply that liberation on a personal level was a distraction from 'proper feminism'.

The overuse of the word empowerment has just made me sensitive to this and I believe that power is a real force in society, not a feeling. I just don't think you can feel like you have power and thus make it so.

Are these the kind of empowering messages our young girls need?

S'funny how often that word is linked to things like pole-dancing, breast implants and all the other porn culture rubbish that is actually quite demeaning for women and girls.

And now it's weird underwear with stupid straps.

Empowering my arse.

Just to be clear, I am totally with OP on this.

Reading through my reply it looked as tho I might've not been!

That's exactly it granhands!

As for good/supportive underwear being "empowering", I take your point, and I suppose some of the big historical shifts in women's dress have been empowering (for e.g. wearing trousers rather than crinolines opens up a lot of possibilities!). But day to day, I wouldn't consider a good bra more empowering than for example your running shoes, but we wouldn't usually use that word for them.

Is lingerie (as opposed to underwear) empowering?

Well if I considered female empowerment to be helping a bloke get a stiffy, then perhaps.

In other words, no.

Oh, I completely agree that 'empowerment' has become a stupid buzzword to describe a feeling of confidence. And actual power is what is important. But I will contend that a feeling of confidence can be created by clothes and that can go a long way to achieving things. But it's a sort of very basic small building block, not more than that.

If 'empowerment' is basically a trendy word for self-confidence (which seems to be the consensus) then surely lingerie can be empowering.

In the same way that comfortable, functional underwear can improve day-to-day confidence, surely wearing something that makes you feel attractive and desirable can provide a boost too?

I'm not saying you should always 'dress for men' but there's nothing wrong with wanting to feel (and being made to feel) sexy for/by your partner. It works both ways too, men should make an effort to be, when it's appropriate, attractive/desirable to women (and this may well include smarter underwear too). Sex and mutual attraction is a significant part of a long-term relationship and to deny this in the name of feminism does a strong disservice to both sexes.

The women here are really clever with words and language. The posters here demonstrate this beautifully with analysis of the wording, from a female perspective.

Munroe has scored an own goal with this lingerie range.
This will be bought by men, for men.

Sex and mutual attraction is a significant part of a long-term relationship

Absolutely!

Thankfully my husband and I have matching libidos (3rd husband lucky!) and a shared dislike of sex-that-requires-commercially-purchased-accessories 😂

The issue is not that women shouldn't ever feel sexy and attractive. It's about the choice to frame those feelings about intimate relationships as 'empowerment'. Yes, men are sold underwear that is billed as sexy and attractive (I note that it's always in comfortable fabrics and shapes) but you don't see it promoted as something that will empower them, except perhaps in the sense that they will be able to attract more women.
That's not the emphasis when women are told the spangly undies are empowering. We are being told here that empowerment = being sexually desirable. There's an attempt to convince us that feeling sexually attractive is analogous to feeling confident so that we can achieve things which actually empower, like education and financial independence etc. But I'm sorry, that's a shell game.

Of course that ad campaign is not empowering, everything about it screams coercive misogyny. Just look at the tag line '“All women are the fantasy, no exceptions!”

It’s so revealing isn’t it? About Bergdorf’s and trans ideology’s concept of women. The assumption that all women of course want to be ‘the fantasy’, because that’s what Bergdorf wants.

Yes, all women just want to be objects for the male gaze. I mean, if a man doesn’t want to fuck me, am I even really a woman?

As a school girl l wore unferwear. As a woman I wear lingerie, soft, colourful and comfortable, but also pretty. My choice. Not for a man. And it makes me no less of a woman.

Wonderwomans pants were empowering.

Been thinking about this more and when look at MB selling this as empowerment from ie my daughters prospective this is pretty shit and wreckless message they promoting.

I remember when the issues was raised, people up in arms about magazines and the photoshopped images affects it had on young girls and trying to promote awareness around that. How is it this is now acceptable?