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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Message from Lynne Featherstone Lib Dems

232 replies

PaleBlueMoonlight · 01/02/2019 17:27

“I also have a message to those people who believe they can restrict trans women’s rights, deny their human rights, or exclude them from women-only spaces in the name of feminism: You are not feminists. Your views are not welcome in the Liberal Democrats.”

Just in case anyone is interested in what the Lib Dems are saying.

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Sightreading · 06/02/2019 19:46

According to their Twitter AC is tying the knot with someone in Grand Rapids, USA in December. I wonder if they intend to move there? I think the person they're marrying is in a relationship with another person so it is a polyamorous arrangement. Maybe it will remain long distance as it would be hard to carry out their political duties if spending a sizeable amount of time overseas.

OlennasWimple · 06/02/2019 22:26

AC is in a long term polyamorous relationship with two other people, one of whom they are planning to marry

R0wantrees · 06/02/2019 22:43

I think there are many people (some in the LibDems) who have been influenced into a comparable role to 'flying monkeys' for some TRAs.

Within the Liberal Democrats are well-established prominant trans activists who have played key roles in Stonewall's trans advisory committee, trans media watch etc

cf 'Flying Monkeys (The Narcissist’s Tool for the Smear Campaign)'
(extract)
"First of all flying monkeys are also known as the:

entourage
accomplices
enablers
extension of the narcissist
campaign managers
They’re out there recruiting other people, kind of in a way like religious people might knock on your door and try to recruit you into their religion. They’re trying to convert you into the religion of the narcissist, which is reality by the narcissist.

So the role of these flying monkeys is first of all abuse by proxy.

Abuse by proxy is when the narcissist gets other people to abuse you. That way the narcissist gets to abuse you but through these people. They’ll reject you, they’ll make you feel not good enough, they’ll shame you, maybe they’ll put you in a bad situation, they’ll tell you that you’re crazy, things like that. This way the narcissist looks like the one that’s clean. They’re not involved." (continues)

So who can become flying monkeys?

There are two different categories of people.

The first category is the naive.

The naive are people who are just clueless. They can’t see it, they can’t fathom it, they’ve never been through anything like that, so they can’t even imagine that somebody would do such a thing to just make up all these lies about you and spread them across town. They just can’t even fathom that a human would do that or maybe the naive is also the fawning type.

This is the type of people who when faced with a fight or flight dilemma, they choose fawning instead where they just melt into into a strong, dominant personality to feel safe and they don’t realize what’s happening. You might have noticed that even you became one of these flying monkeys when you were in your naive state before you woke up, before you figured out what was going on.

The second category of people who can become flying monkeys are the toxic.

These are the people with no boundaries. They love gossip and drama, they’re addicted to that stuff. They have an integrity problem and usually they want something from the narcissist. They want status, they want flattery, they want favours. They’re getting something out of the narcissist, which is why they’re willing to do their bidding. (continues)

medium.com/@OwnYourReality/flying-monkeys-the-narcissists-tool-for-the-smear-campaign-798daf7a59c0

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3500621-Telegraph-article-about-Lib-Dems

Juells · 07/02/2019 10:03

Very good description of 'flying monkeys'. I'd never really understood the phrase before but can see how it applies to all those sad blue-haired young girls who think they're feminists :( I didn't see what their motivation was, but it must feel so good to belong to the army of the righteous, putting horrible old women in their place. Could be applied to those Momentum members as well, I guess, who drive old Labour stalwarts out of the party. You're one of the Good Guys, and can release lots of aggression on legitimate targets.

R0wantrees · 07/02/2019 10:16

Very good description of 'flying monkeys'. I'd never really understood the phrase before

The really important thing though is to see the person/people who are deliberately creating, manipulating and using 'flying monkeys' for their gain.

The descriptors of 'flying monkeys' comes from understanding abuse patterns of behaviour/ coercive control / narcissistic control etc

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2017/11/50-shades-of-gaslighting-the-disturbing-signs-an-abuser-is-twisting-your-reality/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3452784-Coercive-Control-a-need-for-better-awareness

Juells · 07/02/2019 10:28

It's a form of grooming as well, isn't it?

R0wantrees · 07/02/2019 10:51

Yes it can be part of and work alongside grooming patterns.

from the article above: Flying Monkeys (The Narcissist’s Tool for the Smear Campaign)

The topic today is about the role of flying monkeys, who can become flying monkeys, how the narcissist recruits flying monkeys against the target, why does the narcissist use these flying monkeys. (continues)

First of all flying monkeys are also known as the:

entourage
accomplices
enablers
extension of the narcissist
campaign managers
They’re out there recruiting other people, kind of in a way like religious people might knock on your door and try to recruit you into their religion. They’re trying to convert you into the religion of the narcissist, which is reality by the narcissist.

So the role of these flying monkeys is first of all abuse by proxy.

Abuse by proxy is when the narcissist gets other people to abuse you. That way the narcissist gets to abuse you but through these people. They’ll reject you, they’ll make you feel not good enough, they’ll shame you, maybe they’ll put you in a bad situation, they’ll tell you that you’re crazy, things like that. This way the narcissist looks like the one that’s clean. They’re not involved.

The flying monkeys are also used to spread rumors and gossip.

This is one of their most prevalent roles. They are addicted to gossip. Usually these people go around and spread rumors and gossip that they heard.

Flying monkeys do the narcissist’s bidding. That’s what the smear campaign is, is they’ll do whatever the narcissist wants. The narcissist wants them to go out and talk badly about you and spread lies about you or the narcissist wants them to outright abuse you or to make you feel like you don’t belong. Or maybe they invite you to a place where they know something horrible is gonna happen for you and you’re not going to be comfortable there, those sorts of things.

Flying monkeys make the narcissist feel like they’re important and special. They help the narcissist feel like they’re grandiose, like they have high status, like they’re famous or a celebrity, which is what the narcissist wants to feel. Narcissists often have a whole entourage around them just like a celebrity needs an entourage in order to feel secure about themselves. (continues)

Essentially the narcissist spins this web of a false reality and casts it out among this group of people. Then people subscribe to that reality. It’s like they become engulfed into that web of a false reality that they think is very real because the narcissist appears so convincing with an enormous amount of energy and emotion about the topic.

It really seems like it could be true to a certain point, especially to people who just don’t know. But the people who are subscribing and fully knowing, the toxic, who are partaking in this because they’re getting something out of it, they will gladly subscribe to that reality even if they know that it’s a false reality.

Why does the narcissist use flying monkeys?

First of all they like to discredit the witness. They like to discredit you so that you don’t reveal your truth or so that maybe you’ll just be so ashamed and terrified that you won’t say anything, instead you’ll just swallow it all.

Maybe they know that you have the balls to tell the truth and tell people in your community, your family, your circle of friends, your office and they don’t want you to reveal that truth. So they have to discredit you so that people aren’t really sure who’s telling the truth." (continues)

there's lots of information and discussion about the use of 'flying monkeys' by abusive and controlling people. The patterns of behaviour are consistant regardless of sex or gender identity

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