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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suzanne Moore on the shame women are made to feel about their bodies and the effect on smear test attendance.

144 replies

HelenaDove · 27/01/2019 19:41

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/27/shame-women-smear-tests-porn-feminism-bodies?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

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Treefloof · 01/02/2019 16:26

So people on this thread think horrible hcps only do a smear to get extra money, and to humilitate the woman. And if it can’t be painless
it shouldn’t be done?
Really?

No idea about them being paid. Most don't do it to humiliate women, but it ends up being seen that way. It is after all injurious to ones dignity to even have it.

As for the pain, why do they lie. Just tell it like it is, sometimes it hurts, sometimes it carries on hurting, for some people there are no side effects. Same with bleeding.
Stop telling women that we are wrong.
I was so damned angry when a Dr did some procedure to me ( I forget what it was now, menopause) and said "don't be silly it can't hurt, there are no pain receptors there"
Another Dr told me to just go and be a woman, get on and cope. When I was so ill.
I have loads of these little anecdotes all with similar themes.

HelenaDove · 01/02/2019 16:29

Its the gaslighting over the pain issue that we are objecting to.

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HelenaDove · 01/02/2019 16:38

@WhatIsTheMeaningOfThis. That is absolutely appalling and i dont bloody blame you.

i would have reacted in exactly the same way.

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aethelgifu · 01/02/2019 18:05

Its the gaslighting over the pain issue that we are objecting to.

This! But if you chose to take it personally you're probably in the wrong job.

Oxytocindeficient · 01/02/2019 18:36

But if you chose to take it personally you're probably in the wrong job.

Exactly. Can women just talk about this without the ‘ you hate us’ crap.

FlamingJuno · 01/02/2019 20:01

I had what will be my last smear a few weeks ago. I'm 55, and from my age the recall is every five years. I've never had an abnormal smear, and the chance of developing cervical cancer diminishes significantly with age, for many reasons. I won't be going again, although tbf, the practice nurse who did mine was very good, quick, only slightly uncomfortable and she did check if I was on HRT first (yes), because post- menopause it can be much more difficult to do especially if you're not taking any form of HRT.

On a point of interest, it's worth asking all the female doctors and other HCPs you know whether they have their smears - in most cases the answer will be no (if they'll tell you) and that's because it's just not a very effective screen. My bf is a GP and she told me that. She explained more of the detail, but suffice to say I won't be worrying about not having another test.

And another thing - because I've hit the magic 50, I've also had two mammograms so far plus a bowel screen. Bowel screen is horrible, but only happens once (stool test after that) and mammogram is nothing like as bad as a smear, not even in the same ballpark.

Melroses · 01/02/2019 20:05

I understand they are dropping the bowel scope in favour of a more accurate stool test.

BertBox · 01/02/2019 23:55

I've had this article saved on my phone for ages; ready to argue with the doctor about not having a smear:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/why-im-saying-no-to-a-smear-7577967.html

Years ago I had a colposcopy, and was mortified by having a male student observe, without it being made clear I could refuse. A few years ago I had fertility investigations, and again a male student (nurse? I'm not sure) was present without permission being sought, and mortifyingly he was bollocked by the female doctor for not immediately being able to immediately find the large speculum she needed for me.

BertBox · 02/02/2019 00:01

Sorry - posted too soon. Anyway, despite me repeatedly telling my doctors I didn't want a smear again, I gave in and went for another one today. And it hurt. It really bloody hurt. She couldn't reach my cervix, I had fists behind back, and had to keep coughing; and then it felt like my insides were being scraped with a razor blade. Surprisingly I didn't cramp afterwards, though am bleeding.

I don't bother with undercarriage hair removal any more. I've read so often that nurses really couldn't care less - I'm quite shocked to read I might actually be judged on my grooming after all!

HelenaDove · 02/02/2019 01:15

@BertBox Thanks that is exactly how it feels Like being scraped with a razor blade.

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Oxytocindeficient · 02/02/2019 08:18

BertBox I’m sorry you had a bad experience Flowers

BertBox · 02/02/2019 10:41

Oh, thank you both. I don't want to put people off, but it's stupid to say it's 'just uncomfortable'. At least it doesn't last long, is the best comfort I could offer!

WhatIsTheMeaningOfThis · 02/02/2019 10:47

I don't bother with undercarriage hair removal any more. I've read so often that nurses really couldn't care less - I'm quite shocked to read I might actually be judged on my grooming after all!

Quite! I can't quite believe that not subscribing to porn standards of grooming is a red flag!

Skade · 02/02/2019 12:00

I go for mine, but have to mentally psych myself up for weeks. I need 3 diazepam (prescribed by GP) and the nurse holds up a vomit bowl for me to retch into while it's being done. I had grade 4 CIN (pre-cancerous cells) and had to have LLETZ treatment - thankfully they did that under general anaesthetic for me.

I have had internal ultrasounds (observed by a group of medical students!), rectal exams, and a 10lb baby with no painkillers, but NOTHING feels like a smear does to me - it is like being kicked in the stomach. It's not the speculum or the indignity; it's the feel of the brush scraping the cells that causes so much pain. I get angry when I see people saying "it's only a little discomfort" or "it doesn't hurt" - it bloody does for me! I was told by my gynaecologist that a possible reason for my pain was because I was sexually active from a young age and my cervix hadn't developed properly it became damaged - not sure how accurate that is?

legolimb · 02/02/2019 13:53

I have having a smear test . It doesn't (usually) hurt me, and I don't embarrass easily but it is just so invasive .

I had a lot if bottom investigations a few years ago. The world and his wife have had a good look in that area but that didn't bother me.

About 25 years ago I had abnormal cells and was called in for a colposcopy. The consitlant gynae (female) was brutal. Telling me that it can't possibly hurt that much. It did. I was quite young and had little idea of what was going to happen . I cried throughout and for the rest of that day.

So yes, I have since then given birth and had regular smear tests but that one event has clearly stuck. Sad

After seeing the news about the huge backlog of test results not being processed I don't think I'll rush to book my next smear test.

SarahCarer · 02/02/2019 17:49

I can't face any more smear tests and although it hurts me a lot it is the "discomfort" aka feeling of being horribly violated that puts me off. It is having an object pushed into my vagina by a stranger in response to a threat. Having had an internal scan and a venteuse delivery I have learned to recognise the feelings I experienced during and afterwards and to understand that I have been violated and powerless. Neither were necessary and I knew it deep down.

HelenaDove · 10/02/2019 18:46

Call The Midwife are doing a storyline on smears tonight and have already received tweets about it.

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walkingtheplank · 10/02/2019 21:06

I've had a range of procedures both vaginally and anally. Rectal procedures have been absolutely fine and vaginal produres OK but as soon as my cervix is involved, I can expect pain.
Reading PPs, it seems that my tilted cervix is a part of the problem but it is not that uncommon so I don't understand why most HCPs can't work around that. And what's with the hands under your bum which just tenses everything up? Why don't they have a wedge to go underneath? I'm thinking I might take something with me next time.
Saying that, last time the nurse said that due to my age (mid 40s), my cervix is now almost invisible - my fault then.
I just don't think my GP surgery is the place for it.

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