Suzanne Moore on the shame women are made to feel about their bodies and the effect on smear test attendance.

[HelenaDove]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/27/shame-women-smear-tests-porn-feminism-bodies?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

Maybe women should campaign to have the urine test instead of invasive smear test? I'm sure there would be a higher take up rate which is what the NHS want.

Yeah. I actually looked all over to see if I could buy my own urine test, nope. Nobody is offering it including the NHS. I can get the home kit swab thing above.

We should start a petition or something?

I don't go. Last time I went they couldn't find it and gave up.

Tests available on Amazon and Superdrug

www.amazon.co.uk/LetsGetChecked-Home-Cervical-HPV-Test-x/dp/B01ETAMXAG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?psc=1&keywords=Hpv+test&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1548790619&sr=8-1-spons

onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/hpv-test.html

they don't do what a smear does though do they? a smear takes cells from the cervix which are checked in a lab?

they don't do what a smear does though do they? a smear takes cells from the cervix which are checked in a lab?

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

I didn't know this.

Why am I starting to feel like the smear test is just another way for a patriarchal system to trample women's boundaries because there is power in making women feel as vulnerable as possible.

Only samples which test positive for HPV are now actually looked at for pre-cancerous changes. So for most people, that means that the collected cells just get disposed of without ever being looked at

That's ridiculous, you can get cervical cancer without being positive for HPV. Effectively, if you are celibate and have been since before your last smear test then it's pointless to have one then, as it is if you have had the HPV vaccine?

There needs to be something similar to the #metoo campaign for this to drive home the point that this is an excrutiatingly painful procedure for a lot of us.

There needs to be something similar to the #metoo campaign for this to drive home the point that this is an excrutiatingly painful procedure for a lot of us.

That's never going to achieve anything because 'they' don't care. We just have to be good women who lie back and put up with it. I got a reminded for a smear test the other day, I won't be going now.

I’ve sailed through smear tests through my late teens, 20s, 30s, 40s but at my last one in my late 40s I had 2 HCPs have a go and not succeed in finding my cervix. I know I have a tilted one and did all the fists under my back but they were defeated and said I had to come back in a week when my cervix would be in a different position. I duly went back and the same HCP (who incidentally was a Mum I saw on the playground which didn’t help) could not get an adequate swab. She had to call in the Dr, thankfully a young cheery female, who finally managed to do it. I was totally traumatised and am now overdue by 2 years. I followed advice on here to try a sexual health clinic but my appointment has been cancelled because of staff shortages. I’m seeing the Dr tomorrow and will discuss with her. I now totally understand how it is for those of us for whom the procedure isn’t a few ‘uncomfortable’ minutes.

Unfortunately, it does get harder as you get older due to hormone changes and stuff. My last one was ok but I am not going to any more. I have decided for me that the downsides outweigh the risk of cervical cancer by a very long way.

Just an update to say that I spoke to my (female) Dr who was very understanding of my traumatic smear. She says she will do it herself in 3 weeks and in the meantime has given me some estradiol pessaries to use. I don't really suffer from 'dryness' as such but she thinks that they might help make me feel not quite so sensitive. She also said that it's something that happens as you get older and it might make doing smears more problematic. Hopefully it won't be the ordeal it was the last time and at least the Dr is aware of my history. Am now googling what estradiol is all about - seems it's like HRT but not? Time to pop over to the menopause boards!

I am curious as to what the statistics are for cervical cancer beyond the menopause. Am assuming there is a lower risk?

Scrolling further back through that journalists feed i found this.

Sophie WilkINson
‏ @sophwilkinson
Jan 28

The thing about #SmearForSmear is that I genuinely feel less embarrassed by my smear test than of wearing lipstick so I have no photo to share, but ffs if you’re due to, go and get a smear test!!! The test itself isn’t physically uncomfortable at all, and overall, really worth it

A couple of women design engineers have come up with a new speculum which sounds so much nicer. I don't suppose it will be available any time soon

www.wired.com/story/the-speculum-finally-gets-a-modern-redesign/

Their website is good (I'm trying to overlook the 'people with vaginas' bit as they do talk about women. Plus they're in San Francisco)

yonacare.com/

intactcervix.com/2017/09/20/dinas-story-gaslighted-by-the-medical-system/

cancerscreeningfacts.blogspot.com/2019/01/treatment-for-abnormal-cervical.html

So I went for my (overdue) smear test today, luckily I had a very nice nurse (older lady, seemed to have far more empathy), she acknowledged this is horrid, told me to relax but said 'I know its easy for me to say when you are the one lying there', used a plastic speculum thankfully and generally treated me with a bit of dignity and humanity.

I have stopped believing anything doctors say is pain free or "only a little uncomfortable" for women. This means it is pain free for the doctor. I have had "pain free" procedures be excruciating which is worse when they don't tell you and you aren't expecting it.

Anyway this all sounds like a bunch of CIS PRIVILEGE amirite? lol

I read an article in the stupid Independent that repeatedly described it as ‘gentle’ and women weren’t going due to ‘embarrassment’. It was enraging

I have stopped believing anything doctors say is pain free or "only a little uncomfortable" for women. This means it is pain free for the doctor. I have had "pain free" procedures be excruciating which is worse when they don't tell you and you aren't expecting it.

Yeah, that line is the bigger load of bullshit than even David Cameron could come up with. I tell them, too, 'Sure, it won't be at all for you, but it's physically impossible to discern pain in a body besides your own so probably best not to use adages to that effect,' and they usually shut up.

I don't trust most HCPs any farther than I can throw them, which is nowhere, but hey, they don't trust patients, either (hence not believing you when you say you don't drink or drink a bottle a week, they double it).

but hey, they don't trust patients, either (hence not believing you when you say you don't drink or drink a bottle a week, they double it)

That's really weird. I know they do it, have seen them automatically double whatever I tell them. So why ask, if they are just going to double it, and round it up.
They also don't believe if you ever say you don't drink every week.
I am on call and cant drink on my on call week (else could lose job/license) but hcps often don't believe me.
Granted some people may lie, but don't tar us all.

Jeez some people on here really hate HCPs. Depressing
And no there is not a conspiracy to degrade women or because doctors make so much money out of doing smears -honestly it’s something that could easily be done out of GP practices that are already struggling to function due to years of cut backs.
However - Its an important screening tool. It would be great if there was a self test available such as urine or self taken smear but at the moment we only have the smear test. The nhs has no money and no foresight to see that investing in self testing would pay for itself in time. Blame the managers for that not the hcps.
FWIW it’s often difficult when I get my smear done because my cervix is tilted back. This is not the fault of the person doing the smear and putting my fists under my back helps improve the position - it’s not done to humiliate you or make people even more uncomfortable.
There’s no excuse for making a woman feel uncomfortable when having a smear and if anyone experiences this they should feed that back to the practice manager. We all know a smear is going to be uncomfortable but it really shouldn’t be sore. If it is then speak to a sympathetic GP who might be able to look at ways of helping eg as someone else mentioned oestrogen cream for a few weeks before smear

Just FYI that journalist emailed me and is going to use my email to ask questions of the expert before she writes her article. If anyone wants to write to her, I would recommend it.