Suzanne Moore on the shame women are made to feel about their bodies and the effect on smear test attendance.

[HelenaDove]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/27/shame-women-smear-tests-porn-feminism-bodies?CMP=twt_gu&__twitter_impression=true

Someone on the AIBU thread was talking about an initial urine test (can't remember the details) which would then lead to an actual smear if the urine test showed anything up.
I don't know how realistic this is, but if it's true that it could be done this way, then it's a disgrace that it isn't.

Does anyone know?
I'd be FAR more likely to be tested if this were an option.

speculums mooncups reusable sanpro. A hell of a lot of sacrifices for the envionment seem to be falling on women.

Metal equipment requires thorough cleaning before it goes through the steriliser, especially around the moving parts. Hospitals have the machinery (or outsource now). At my GPs they used to have speculums soaking in the sink. It is probably ok most of the time but is an unnecessary risk. I remember news stories of women having to be contacted when a GPs sterilising process was found wanting. There is far more awareness since HIV and resistant microorganisms have been taken into account.

I don’t find using a menstrual Cup a sacrifice, not doing things to ensure the survival of the planet. It’s a change of product essentially, and it’s been so much better than other sanitary items I honestly wish I switched before. Far more comfortable, less expensive and less risky in terms of TSS ( always sterilise them ).

I don't either, mooncups and reusable sanpro are much more comfortable and better for heavy periods.

Do much prefer plastic speculum to metal though.

From twitter

Sophie WilkINson
‏ @sophwilkinson
1h1 hour ago

WOMEN! Lots of you aren't going for smear tests because you're concerned/have had previous bad experiences. I want to take your concerns to experts so they can address them, for @GraziaUK. Please tell me (anonymously) ur concerns on [email protected]

The current campaign feels to me a bit like bullying.

It would make such a difference if women were treated as the autonomous adults they are. Maybe they should start from the basis of 'Women - if you would like a smear test...' and then give out the details instead of trying to frighten us.

Also, is there any chance that the test itself can cause damage to the tissue around the cervix? Any chance at all? No one ever informs us of the risk of having the test, only the risk of not having it. I don't feel fully informed. If it causes pain, there must be a tiny chance of damage surely?

Digressing a bit I know.

I’ve heard women really worried about being judged about pubic hair when in labour.

But I also believe that more women avoid smears because they hurt. And because they force women to relive rape, assault and painful sex.

That email doesn’t work? Tried emailing it

Sorry, I just realised that the email was broken up,

I also can’t buy into the narrative pushed that drs/nurses/hcas are like these robotic beings who don’t judge or acknowledge anything other than getting on with the procedure, view a vagina as just another body part like an elbow.

A lot of my birth trauma was down to poor and disrespectful treatment that was really unprofessional, some aspects included tuts and unkind comments as well as lots of talk about me in third person. When wheeled into theatre I remember one voice commenting ‘oh look at her bump it’s really small isn’t it’- not unkind but still quite disrespectful considering I was there in the room and fully conscious.

When researching in depth for my second birth. I had a good read through online forums for midwives/student midwives, I found really long threads along the lines of ‘what’s really turned your stomach’ and so many were sharing different stories of women with perceived poor hygiene, women with an unpleasant smell, stories of poo and vomit etc. Made me realise that it isn’t always ‘just another day’ and that they don’t notice any of these things! Again a large Facebook parenting group a maternity support worker and student midwife were sharing undignified labour stories of women they have cared for as if they were humourous entertainment. So I definitely feel like there is always the real possibility the stranger you are trusting may well be judging and remembering.

heard women really worried about being judged about pubic hair when in labour.

Yes, this is what puts me off getting mine done. I have a tilted cervix and was left exposed while the nurse went to find a doctor during my last one. Two of them returned and gawped at my large lumbering exposed body and made me put fists under my fat arse and tilt my pelvis upwards. It's so embarrassing and undignified. The spotlight too shows up every hair and bump.

I can't afford to be waxed all the time and now shave if I can be bothered. For me it's a mammoth task I have really thick heavy growth and it's hard to reach all the bits.
I feel very uncomfortable afterwards too and have bumps and regrowth within a day.

A few of my local beauty salons are offering free bikini waxing if you have a smear booked - what kind of message is that sending?? There's now an expectation that all women having smears should be shaved/waxed/neat and tidy and you're some kind of monster if you go natural.

It's all wrong.

I also agree with pp that said they don't test for any other type of cancer, why do women get this horrendous form of testing every three years?

Mine is overdue by 7 months but I'm not going back.

I take care of elderly women mostly and trust me, all your body hair disappears post 70.

clairestandish god that is all awful and eye opening. My midwife made a grimace when she had to check my small tear, no stitches, after birth. I was so embarrassed to have to show her. She did the same thing when she looked at my nipples, because apparently she could tell they were going to get ‘cracked’ ( really actually just raw nipples ).
I also got asked if I would agree to student doctors at the birth, my first. I said no. I kept getting asked, including during my very long labour. No means no for gods sake.

Very recently I read about a beautician who was offering free bikini waxes for women who had had a smear test. She said that chatting to her customers, she was astounded by how few women (particularly younger ones) went for regular testing.

I found this quite intriguing - I would have thought that women who are happy enough for a stranger to wax their pubes would have been more likely to go for a smear test. And if they aren't being tested, it's not because they are worried about personal grooming, because they are people who regularly get waxed.

So clearly there is something more than fear of being judged as not normal "down there"

@Oxytocindeficient I declined students as well, I just feel there’s a massive culture of disrespect around women in healthcare, particularly with childbirth and gynaecological issues.

And yes agree that once you’ve said no they shouldn’t ask again, it’s like they just hope you’ll give in and agree or the pain will get greater and you’ll no longer care and say yes, not really proper consent.

No, it’s coercion.

I think the reason women don't get tested is down to a range of reasons including fear, previous experience of pain, sexual assault/abuse, traumatic birth experiences, embarrassment, the knowledge of how hard it can be to get a medical appointment, particularly one that needs to be coordinated around periods, especially if your period is irregular, lack of childcare, working full-time/shifts etc complicating when you can actually go for an appointment etc etc etc. That's an awful lot of reasons not to go, and the don't be a diva campaign addresses none of them.

There are some ladies who say smear test missed my cervical cancer. This is because the smear test cannot detect all types of cervical cancer, so it's important to get checked and insist if you have cervical cancer symptoms like pelvic pain, pain on intercourse and bleeding etc.

Annoyingly mainly ladies say they got turned away because they had clear smear tests and had to insist on tests. There are threads on this on Jo's Trust.

Does anyone know why we aren't peeing into a pot instead of having a smear test?

Tests four years ago showed that HPV could be detected in urine pretty effectively.

(The throwaway line in the article about this test perhaps being likely to be more acceptable to women than a traditional smear made me )

I actually didn’t know that. I wonder if you can pay for it on Medi Checks? When the NHS wouldn’t give me a proper thyroid panel, initially I had to use really expensive labs but now my regular checks just for key hormones, are only £39 on thyroid thursdays. So although not ideal or fair, I would pay for a urine test every few years for sure.

Too many nurses and doctors out there with very low to no empathy for the women they are examining. You'd think they treat us better when they've specifically chosen to work with women's reproductive health. They're doing an invasive examination of our most sensitive body parts and it's awkward as hell, at least be gentle and understanding about it.

And another thing I don't see anyone mentioning is how it feels afterwards. After my latest smear I was sore and had bloody discharge for days. Not very pleasant.

Olenna Oh wow. Why indeed.

So, is this the home kit someone else mentioned? I have never heard of this

onlinedoctor.superdrug.com/hpv-test.html

I also can’t buy into the narrative pushed that drs/nurses/hcas are like these robotic beings who don’t judge or acknowledge anything other than getting on with the procedure, view a vagina as just another body part like an elbow.

This. I think I sort of bought into it before dc1 was born but when you've had a male obstetrician stand between your legs and commend you on your lack of stretch marks/sensible weight gain it makes you wonder. And yes, I was hugely uncomfortable throughout that conversation as I struggle with vaginal examinations at the best of times.

I also can’t buy into the narrative pushed that drs/nurses/hcas are like these robotic beings who don’t judge or acknowledge anything other than getting on with the procedure, view a vagina as just another body part like an elbow.

A post from a senior consultant on here was quite sobering. Several of her students thought a patient was mentally depressed/ill and one of the reasons was her lack of grooming her pubic hair.