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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jean Hatchet, new blog post

999 replies

SugarPlumFairy99 · 25/01/2019 14:38

jeanhatchet.blogspot.com/2019/01/why-i-wont-be-standing-up-for-women.html

This blog post from Jean is eye-opening. Working alongside anti-abortion, hard right groups undermines decades of feminism.

Shame on Posie. I agree with Jean, I will also be sitting down for women.

OP posts:
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feministfairy · 26/01/2019 11:10

Who said her oppression doesn't matter?

BeyondShattered · 26/01/2019 11:10

Yeah cause I meant it as a literal quote Grin

You can't argue that feminism is for all women while also arguing that x group of women are untouchable. It's just hypocritical and weird.

sackrifice · 26/01/2019 11:11

sackrifice yes some women might be all those things, but I'm not talking about individuals, I'm taking about groups, organisations that exist solely to promote those things. There is a distinction.

These groups, do they have women as members and/or supporters?

Why is your opinion so much more important than theirs?

Datun · 26/01/2019 11:11

Is there evidence that Posie is supporting these ideas of abortion denial, and gender cementation? Or is it that people who believe those things are supporting Posie over free speech?

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 26/01/2019 11:12

As I'm now apparently the devil incarnate on FWR, I'll leave and stop wasting my metaphorical breath.

However, my point is: as feminists we should not be allying ourselves with homophobic, racist groups that seek to remove rights from women. Pretty straightforward really.

sackrifice · 26/01/2019 11:12

I mean I have no idea what their opinions are, or what yours are but I am stunned that only some women's opinions are allowed.

R0wantrees · 26/01/2019 11:12

I have repeatedly said feminism should be about all women, including the women certain groups and individuals under discussion here would seek to disadvantage or even eradicate.

The groups and individuals under discussion are primarily Jean Hatchet, Posie Parker, Venics Allen, Meghan Murphy, Standing for Women, We Need to Talk etc

None of these are 'seeking to disadvantage or eradicate' groups of women.

They are standing up for women (adult human females)

Its a common false TRA claim that feminists want to eradicate or erase transpeople.

sackrifice · 26/01/2019 11:13

However, my point is: as feminists we should not be allying ourselves with homophobic, racist groups that seek to remove rights from women. Pretty straightforward really.

If those groups include women, then why is your opinion about them more important than their opinion about you?

I may not agree with many, many people but they do have a right to say what they feel. Isn't that the whole point of free speech?

feministfairy · 26/01/2019 11:17

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed
You're not the devil incarnate! You're a poster with a minority view arguing their case. And I get that it's exhausting.

Women are socialised into 'being kind' 'tolerant' and being emotionally coerced into feeling sorry for others. You're getting push back because many of us (not all) disagree with you.

There's one group in all this that advocates #nodebate and 'be quiet woman as I am more oppressed than you' - and it's not women. Being quiet in the face of gaslighting, threats and blaming is what has got us into this mess.

Floisme · 26/01/2019 11:18

Is that another poster making accusations about aligning with bigots then leaving the thread when when asked for evidence?

WeRiseUp · 26/01/2019 11:20

Tbh saskia I agree with you there''s something to be said about caution around accepting money from, receiving direction from or meeting according to the terms of certain individuals or groups. The womens movement is for women and male supremacists are always on the look out for ammo. I havent yet seen evidence this is what Posie is doing - (but have seen a lot of what looks like deliberate misrepresentation by old adversaries with an axe to grind). Even if she has though, I don't think a lack of caution is the same as allegiance and it is is a logical leap to say it is.

AngryAttackKittens · 26/01/2019 11:21

My only comment on the current argument is that right wing women are women and therefore should be part of any discussion about the impact trans activism is having on women's rights, safety, privacy, etc.

sackrifice · 26/01/2019 11:25

If all the people on the 'left' are calling you abusive names, and the only people willing to let you talk are on the 'right' then are you going to shut up because you don't want to be seen as being 'right'?

There there, be a good girl, and keep the 'right on lefties' happy eh?

This whole debacle has made me [a vegetarian, veg growing, seed saving, hemp wearing, leftie for life] see things in a whole new light.

And it isn't pretty, it isn't pretty at all.

R0wantrees · 26/01/2019 11:26

However, my point is: as feminists we should not be allying ourselves with homophobic, racist groups that seek to remove rights from women. Pretty straightforward really.

There are a number of groups who have sought to and continue to lobby to remove rights from women. Many groups have either colluded or unknowingly contributed to this.

This is the basis for the formation of groups including We Need To Talk, Woman's Place UK, Fairplay For Women, Man Friday, LAWS, Resisters, ForWomen Scotland.

James Kirkup July 4th 2018
(extract)
"For all that some people suggest it’s somehow prurient or distasteful to talk about penises in this debate, there is, as Nick Robinson put it in some excellent interviews on the Today Programme yesterday, no way to avoid this. The simple fact is that people with penises, whatever word we use to describe those people, are biologically different to people without penises, and that difference matters to many women in a way that cannot be dismissed as bigotry. It is, again, a simple fact that people with penises have the potential to commit certain acts of violence and abuse against others. That fact is the reason Parliament and society accept the concept of single-sex spaces: women have a right to keep someone with a penis out of those spaces.

Upholding that legal right is possibly the founding principle of several women’s groups that have sprung up since the Government first announced its intent to make it easier for people to change their legal gender. Unlike the charities that lobby for transgender rights, the women’s groups — Woman’s Place UK, Fair Play for Women and ManFriday — have no corporate or public sector funding, and not much money at all. They are genuine grassroots political organisations that have sprung up from a concerned public. Those groups have made a difference. Back in the autumn, that point about female-only spaces was either often ignored or dismissed in political debate. Women talking about penises were ridiculed as bigoted cranks, accused of transphobic misinformation. Their meetings were subjected to violent protests (one person has been convicted of assault) and a bomb threat, threats that went shamefully unremarked on by most politicians. Nevertheless, the women persisted: the meetings continued; the campaigns went on; and it made a difference.

Yesterday on the Today programme, Penny Mordaunt, equalities Minister, didn’t dismiss those women as cranks. She said this:

“Those women who are raising those concerns, those are legitimate concerns that we need to address…We will listen to everyone’s voice in this consultation.”

Why has the Government decided to say it will listen to grassroots feminists? That brings me to the less public bit of the story. Some people have been listening to the women’s groups, even if they don’t say so publicly." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/07/labour-and-tories-finally-see-the-truth-about-the-gender-debate/

CoffeeMilkNoSugar · 26/01/2019 11:27

I don't think Dr Nic Williams, for example (who according to me is an excellent feminist activist AND the epitome of class to boot) would be seen dead cosying up to misogynists and homophobes.

sueanddumplings · 26/01/2019 11:33

Tried to read the blog but it seems to have disappeared.

OvulaRasa · 26/01/2019 11:38

I take my hat to Posie, Jean and all the WoLF women speaking at the Event.

The amendments to the Equality Act in US pose same dangers to girls and women as the GRA in UK.
Is this the event Jean did not attend? The right is an unusual allie, I'll get that. What option is there if even the labour party opens the all women's short list to non women people?

www.heritage.org/event/the-inequality-the-equality-act-concerns-the-left#

GrinitchSpinach · 26/01/2019 11:41

I don't think so, Ovula. Believe Posie Venice and Meghan are speaking at a separate event on Sunday, not at the Heritage Fdn. Location to be announced.

GrinitchSpinach · 26/01/2019 11:42

(location to be announced, as with so many women's events, at the last minute for security reasons. Security concerns about violent MEN, not women of any political stripe).

Oxytocindeficient · 26/01/2019 11:43

Is that another poster making accusations about aligning with bigots then leaving the thread when when asked for evidence?

Yes, no doubt later to claim they were ‘hounded’ off. Apparently asking for evidence to back up accusations, is ‘hounding’.

OvulaRasa · 26/01/2019 11:46

Thanks Grinitch. Cannot see the blog to check event. And as heritage was mentioned I was wondering.

LangCleg · 26/01/2019 11:51

As I'm now apparently the devil incarnate on FWR, I'll leave and stop wasting my metaphorical breath.

Oh, FFS. Stop being such a drama lama. Nobody is telling you who you can and cannot support or who you must withdraw support from. You can do whatever you like - as everyone keeps saying.

You're being argued with not because of your choices about where to put your own boundaries and red lines but because you're telling others you're going to summarily kick them out of the acceptable feminist box if they don't do what you say.

You can't do that, as Lisa keeps trying to tell you. It's not possible.

WokeNotBloke · 26/01/2019 11:52

Read the thread, and left feeling a bit 😳 about the Posie bashing... apparently she’s a bit thick 😮😳... has a long history of racist posts... is in bed with racist bigots and is currently on an all expenses paid trip courtesy of the far right 🙀

And all this without a shred of evidence 🤔

Sorry, don’t buy it. Feels like it’s been orchestrated to make it even more difficult for women to stand up... like it wasn’t hard enough already 😡. Fuck it, unintended consequences... but I think my brave heart just grew a little bigger. Think I will stand up after all.

R0wantrees · 26/01/2019 11:55

Tried to read the blog but it seems to have disappeared.

It didn't disappear, Jean decided to take it down.
You can read her words here:
twitter.com/JeanHatchet

AngryAttackKittens · 26/01/2019 11:55

The lovely Emily from earlier in the week did say that their plan was to sow dissent among the gendercrit ranks. Certainly not the first person to have that idea, and won't be the last, so when someone pops up saying "we should all hate X" it may be wise to consider why they might be trying to steer people in that particular direction at that particular time.

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