Harry the owl visited by police

[Imnobody4]

This whole hate speech/incident law is completely out of control. This is sinister.
Check out @HarryTheOwl’s Tweet: twitter.com/HarryTheOwl/status/1088144870991114241?s=09

i am listening. but im trying to say there are standards within the police service that have to be adhered to.

wrong think - for you equals hate incident for the person at the other end.

i am a woman. proud to serve in a male dominated role. i agree actually with most of what you are saying here.
but we have to be imparital. its the same for me with hunting. i hate hunting. im anti hunting in every way shape and form. some colleages dont even speak to me anymore because ive made such a stand on that issue.
but i am a professional. i have to be because i am paid to be.
so i have to act within the law. uphold the law. and abide by the law. and the law on hate crime is pretty clear and so it is on hate incidents too.
whatever my personal thinking - im sorry - i have to abide by the law.

there will always be someone thinking your thinking is wrong. so we have to step back and look at what legislation says. what our powers and policy says.
and put asiide our own views and act only on our powers/policy/legislation.
thats how it should be. thats how there is no bias in policing.

Hazza you got your work cut out there but if you think you can affect that change i salute you.

is it a hate crime to be a holocaust denier now? How many holocaust deniers have been spoken to by the police for thinking this?

but we have to be imparital.

Assigning someone as a victim is not staying imparital is it.

If a holocaust denier retweeted holocaust denial tweets, would they be called up and a publicity statement go out saying they have committed a hate crime, without it having actually been judged in court as a hate crime?

there are two issues.
hate crime
hate incident

its the same as antisocial behaviour legislation.
they have asb crime
and asb incdients.

is just joining dots. its not our personal opinion! its what the legislation says.

captain
with anything there is a perceived victim/suspect even in NON CRIME domestics one is labelled a victim and one is labelled suspect.

its just language. it does not sit comfortably with me either . i use diifferent language when i can. like A says and B says....not labelling one victim or suspect.
but i bet if i posted that on the DV boards id be shot down for that too! some will always say there is a victim and suspect.

Hate incidents are not crimes, otherwise they’d be called crimes. If the police actually consider liking limericks, whether some find it offensive or not, to be actual crimes, our society is in a lot of trouble. You cannot just respond to every person who is offended, that is a stupendous waste of time and not what the police are for.

We know there are hate incidents and hate crimes - what we are saying is that this police officer has taken a particular stance on a political issue - an ideology - in telling Harry that "sometimes women's brains grow in men's bodies" and telling him to "check his thinking".

The police are supposed to be impartial, as you say - not be lecturing the public on trans ideology which is by no mean either scientifically proven or factual. "Lady brain' is bunkum - women have been fighting this sort of thinking for centuries.

no you are right but some stuff has to be recorded as a hate incident.

oh you think responding to offended people is stupid.....mmmm
take a look at this thread then.
i could not agree more.

with anything there is a perceived victim/suspect even in NON CRIME domestics one is labelled a victim and one is labelled suspect.

If It's not impartial language. It means that you are not being impartial.

vicar, read the room.

We KNOW all this. We know about hate incidents and hate crime. Christ.

Are you okay? You are coming across as delirious.

toetotoe i will watch the outcome with interest. i agree with you.

I find it hard to believe the police have the time to phone everyone reported for a hate ‘incident’

As far as the law goes, ‘hate’ is something that needs to be better defined. It’s too easy to harass people for just having opinions. Free speech and all that. Hate used to be a lot clearer. And of course the fact that misogyny isn’t a hate crime, is a fucking disgrace, but pretty much expected considering how sexist both our judicial system and police force is.

Your main mistake rytonsister is that you think our discussion of this is motivated by us wanting to have a go at the police.

But as far as we're concerned the problem isn't the police. We've had similar discussions about government departments, Stonewall, political parties, the Girl Guides, and so on. The issue is institutions that become, for whatever reason, motivated to push an anti-science, anti-logic, and harmful ideology. It's just at the moment, the institution in the news that has been drawn into this is the police, so that's who we're discussing.

its just language.
Language is very important, you know this.

im fine thank you popchyk.

what have i done that denotes i am not? im trying to explain why some hurty words get recorded.

Oh I personally think the police are part of the problem.

its not our personal opinion! its what the legislation says.

And we say the legislation is utterly and hideously wrong.

“I have been spat at in the face, had my wig ripped off my head and been punched in the back of the head over the years," she said"

Those things are all criminal assault. If you add the transphobic hate element they are hate crimes.

As you say, it's ridiculous to compare that with some tweets someone happened to find offensive, that weren't even directed at them.

thats why i change my language from victim/suspect to mr A and miss B.
captain

because i dont like feeling there is a victim and suspect if i dont see a justification for it but again that down to me....
and my common sense? i refuse to label people sometimes. yet others i do. there will always be that conundrum. who is right and who is wrong? how to play it safe with trans issues? and not end up like pc gul?

It's very Emperors New Clothes.

We all see it but aren't allowed to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

Now I'm not saying hatred towards a trans person isn't hideous it is, just like hatred toward a person in a wheelchair, an Asian man or a gay person. Hate is hate and is unacceptable.

However, freedom of speech should prevail. I like what Russel Howard said in the RHH the other day that freedom of speech means you can say what you want but equally others can respond back and disagreee with you.

But you can't say making a joke is a hate crime. Otherwise every sexist, racial stereotype, fake disability joke would lead to arrests. There has to be a line somewhere.

It seems that the police is so caught up in not wanting to rock the boat they are not focusing on what really matters.

I'm visually impaired. A silly joke about being blind would either be funny or plain stupid to me but I wouldn't think to report!

There once was a man known as Harry the Owl
Whose Tweet feed made the TRAs howl;
For he shared a Tweet marking the facts,
Though the Police read him the Discrimination Act
Now he's rueing the day he fell foul.

if you want legislation changed by all means campaign. im not sure how you get this tbh.

how to play it safe with trans issues? and not end up like pc gul?

No idea what you do personally but we all seem to be trying to get things changed.

However, freedom of speech should prevail. I like what Russel Howard said in the RHH the other day that freedom of speech means you can say what you want but equally others can respond back and disagreee with you.

This.