Is alcohol a feminist issue?

[mirialis]

I don't frequent the board much so I did do a quick search but couldn’t see a discussion on this - apologies if this has already been done to death.

It’s Dry January time and during the last week or so I’ve listened to a few audiobooks/podcasts about women and alcohol. One that is not available in the UK on audio seems to be:

In Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol, award-winning journalist Anne Dowsett Johnston combines in-depth research with her own personal story of recovery, and delivers a groundbreaking examination of a shocking yet little recognized epidemic threatening society today: the precipitous rise in risky drinking among women and girls

With the feminist revolution, women have closed the gender gap in their professional and educational lives. They have also achieved equality with men in more troubling areas as well. In the U.S. alone, the rates of alcohol abuse among women have skyrocketed in the past decade. DUIs, “drunkorexia”, and health problems connected to drinking are all rising—a problem exacerbated by the alcohol industry itself

Battling for women’s dollars and leisure time, corporations have developed marketing strategies and products targeted exclusively to women.

I’ve heard her talk before about how women's metabolic and hormonal difference makes us more prone to addiction after prolonged drinking, to alcohol-related heart disease and cancers (particularly, of course breast cancer), to drink alcohol as a result of anxiety and depression (which is ultimately counterproductive) and so on. Her problem began with her being out at work all day and then coming home and being the one to prepare the family's dinner and oversee the homework and that having one or two glasses of wine helped her make that transition, equally true of SAHM who view it as a relaxation tool after a relentless day of childcare and housework that does not stop at 5pm but continues well into the evening. And of course childfree women in careers where part of networking and keeping up with the boys involves drinking as much - if not more - than the men, but ultimately this can lead to women sabotaging their full potential.

The (male-dominated) drinks industry made a concerted effort to specifically target women and it has worked out extremely well for them (and the government’s tax intake which far outstrips the NHS cost) but seems to be having a devastating effect on women. On top of it all, women - particularly mothers and pregnant women - tend to experience a lot of shame around drinking and so hide it more, preventing them from asking for help when they need it.

Gloria Steinem apparently dismissed Dowsett Johnston’s claims saying, "drinking is not a women’s issue" but the more I read and listen, the more I think it IS a women’s issue and whilst I reject the idea that women shouldn’t drink so much because it’s not ladylike, makes us somehow more irresponsible then men, or we ask for sexual assault and so on, we have reached a point where women need to help and support each other to stop being sucked into the idea that alcohol is "the modern women’s steroid, enabling her to wear so many hats" because it’s both harming us and holding us back.

I think feminism must just turn out to be the thing that actually inspires me to become mindful of drinking.

Passive drinking is a concept that makes a lot of sense to me. Casualty departments at weekends are stuffed with people suffering the effects of other people's drinking.

How many women in refuges are there because of drink? How much male violence and sexual abuse is fuelled by drink?

Then there's the damage done to the children of alcoholics of both sexes. I see it all the time on Mumsnet threads - having an alcoholic parent scars people for life.

Weren't menthol cigarettes originally marketed as healthy, something you'd smoke for throat problems? Obviously before the links to cancer were widely known.

When I was doing research for my dissertation many moons ago, I remember being unimpressed by reading about men who got drunk on payday (first half of the 19th century, this was,) - one was known for regularly drinking 16 quarts in a night and getting drunk and starting fights. I wrongly thought this was 4pts (much less than we'do have drunk bit now a night out in the SU bar,) but I later learnt a quart is two pints, a quarter of a gallon, so he was actually drinking 32pts. Even if it was just small beer, I don't see how someone can physically take in that much liquid, regardless of alcoholic content. But anyway, there were always problems with some men pissing their wages away, as someone mentioned upthread.

MissFitton - I had a look at a couple of DJ threads on here and elsewhere (also all women) and recognize with how difficult it is not just to attend a party without drinking (and some people turn down invites this month as a consequence or end up cracking) but also to drop the habitual drinks at home. Maybe it stuck out more to me as I cook for a living but I noticed quite a few references to how much cooking the dinner was "a trigger" and how boring it is without a glass of wine. Boring day, boring evening, being bored seems to be quite a common theme, as does having a male partner who can have one glass of wine at home after work and be happy with that, whilst the female partner struggles not to finish off the whole bottle (this is also the dynamic in our home so now don't open bottles of wine for dinner anymore if I am out socially a lot to keep unit intake relatively in check - if DH has a beer or two in the evening I don’t even notice but an open bottle of wine is a whole different story).

I think most of my female friends (mid 30s-mid 40s - so drinking in the 90s) can "drink like a man" (i.e. at the very least match them drink for drink in the pub on nights out), probably prided ourselves on being able to do so when we were younger, have just accepted it as the norm now, and need to reflect a bit about what it means to "drink like a woman" and prioritizing our own wellbeing. The nature of my work and home life makes it easier to be out and socializing a lot but also to have equal status adult company at home of an evening, and to turn to exercise, yoga or meditation (never have managed to motivate myself on that one though!), reading, cinema etc. instead for relaxation/stimulation. Many female peers are simply not in that position.

Once again, for the avoidance of doubt, I'm not suggesting that men are not targeted by gendered alcohol advertising, that men don't have significant pressures in their lives, nor that male drinking is not the bigger problem for society. I'm focusing on the rise in female problem drinking because this attainment of equality (and the Lancet shows British women drink as much as British men now) is bad news for women and one I think needs to be thought about without being used as yet another stick to beat women with. The women writing about quitting/controlling booze talk a lot about empowerment and self-care - yes, it might sound patronising blah, blah, blah but seems to be an approach that is better than the shame and anxiety-provoking finger-wagging you often get around the issue of women and alcohol.

I think most of my female friends (mid 30s-mid 40s - so drinking in the 90s) can "drink like a man" (i.e. at the very least match them drink for drink in the pub on nights out), probably prided ourselves on being able to do so when we were younger, have just accepted it as the norm now

this attainment of equality (and the Lancet shows British women drink as much as British men now) is bad news for women

If young people are drinking less there's a chance this was a blip? Maybe?
I'm about the same age and likewise can match a bloke drink for drink. I shouldn't, I shouldn't even try, because I'm much smaller than a bloke and built differently and it will affect me in a different way and and and.
But at least if a 21 year old woman doesn't see the need to, and her friends don't either, and they drink less as a result, perhaps it will sort itself out?
Just being optimistic I think.

Yes it is good that younger people are seemingly drinking less (though alcohol is not the only drug that does the rounds!) but women our age are big drinkers and the study in the Lancet had the biggest female drinkers as aged 45-64.

Well, one can have equality and recognise difference, I think, so I would be wary of phrasing it that the attainment of equality is bad for women.

The attainment of equality without recognising that women have different needs is bad for women, as is the framing of success and the networks and means of achieving it in masculine terms. If the business is conducted over bottles of wine in restaurants, as it was when I worked in the City two decades ago, and socialising was after work in a bar, those are not modes of behaviour which were historically framed as female, or suitable for female health and well-being (or male health for that matter, but women are fitting in whereas the culture is historically male).

It is how equality has been interpreted (women fitting within existing male norms and having to erase any suggestion of difference) which is the problem.

Yes of course KJ - I was specifically referring to equality of consumption (which actually seems to be measured in number of drinks without even specifying what those drinks were and as we've noted, many women are drinking stronger drinks than men)! Hopefully younger women in work feel more confident about saying, hey, no that's enough for my body without feeling like that's an admission of weakness or letting the side down and meaning you have to remove yourself from where all the relationships and conversations are being formed.

I've just listened to an interview with Annie Grace who wrote This Naked Mind (recommended by a pp and which I've now ordered) and she said that she used to go back to her hotel room during conferences, be sick, and then go back down to the bar and carry on until she built up enough of a tolerance to not only keep up with all her male colleagues/clients but outdrink them. And it worked. She kept getting promoted. Fortunately for her she's now channeling that admirable level of determination and grit in a more positive way!

I honestly haven't seen alcohol adverts which are specifically aimed towards females.

I did read an article about how women, especially professionals drink a lot more now than in previous times. They stated this could be due to added life pressures and increasing after work corporate events. It focused on how alcohol does more damage to women due to their body structure and the rate of health problems relating directly have increased for women based on NHS records.

Timmy - you will have seen them for sure, it's just a question of whether you noticed it or not.

I'm in South Africa now moved from the UK 3 years ago so not up to date with UK ads anymore. I also watch movies on YouTube and streaming so don't see ads anymore. Just based my statement on what I can remember

I used to work in public health epidemiology and this thread has really struck a chord with me. I wish I was still in my original career so I could research some of the key themes emerging from this discussion.

It is shocking in itself that drinks targeted towards women are stronger than those targeted towards men. I have been well and truly suckered into that one! When I used to drink "properly" rather than the odds and sods now, male friends used to give me grief if I didn't keep up with the rounds but I am tiny and it is no wonder I soon started to sneak in lemonade on my rounds as well (and then got grief for that too...).

It is not useful to think of alcohol consumption as a dichotomy - normal drinking vs alcoholism. There are vast swathes of harmful consumption going on which will never be alcoholism but do indeed cause harm both to the individual and those around them - slips and falls, DV, there are a lot of cancers related to alcohol link here, lack of productivity in the workplace, child neglect and abuse...

It seems to me that your last paragraph is absolutely spot on and the crux of the problem. There is harm all along the spectrum on top of the fact that many people are capable of slowly, gradually, imperceptibly, boiling-frog-style, sliding further along the spectrum - this is what seems to have been happening with women in particular and the normalisation of regular and habitual intake of stronger alcoholic drinks in bodies less well-equipped to process it makes that no surprise if you take a step back and think about it.

Exactly. Even my ‘ability’ to drive is affected by one drink. I am 5’4’ slim and go ‘fuzzy’ after one drink (lightweight!). This is because of my size and my biological ability to process alcohol. If I were to drive, this would increase my risk of having an accident even though I am a long way from an alcoholic. I barely drink but my drinking because of my biology and that I like ‘stronger’ drinks (wine etc), increases the social and health risks straightaway (not just driving but also falls, arguments with friends/family...).

The risks are not quite so quick (although still there) for an average sized man drinking a pint.

Quite. So the increased "risk" for women is operating on a number of levels: the immediate risk to women drinking at least as much as their male peers in terms of loss of control/vulnerability, the longer term risks of cancers and alcohol-related heart disease, and the other longer term problem that, yes, there are underlying genetic and trauma experiences that make you more prone to addiction BUT building up a tolerance bit by bit (even without those underlying factors) puts you on that so-gradual-it's-almost-imperceptible slide through heavy drinking, problem drinking, dependence, full-blown alcoholism... and women can very easily edge their way along that scale if we are habitually and mindlessly drinking more alcohol then men - not just in terms of the actual alcohol % of the drink (i.e. wine/spirits v beer) but also in terms of what our (generally smaller) bodies can effectively handle on a hormonal and metabolic level.

I agree with everything you say, but I think (going back a few posts) the difference between smoking and drinking is that epidemiological evidence suggests that there is no safe level of tobacco use, whereas there is still the idea that certain amounts of certain drinks (red wine Mediterranean diet and so on) is good for you. So the cultural messages are more mixed. You find reviews of wine in weekend papers and subscription club advertising in the junk mail, for example.

The idea of passive drinking is an interesting one and I would like to know how epidemiological and social research captures this. My father’s drinking did amount to neglect, yes, I remember cleaning up after him and putting him to bed when I was at primary school and my mother was away (always an opportunity for a bender). But it amounted also to secondary poverty and I think made my mother act in a very resentful manner and take things out on the children. And of course my first serious relationship was with a high-functioning alcoholic and one of my criteria for marrying the husband who turned out to be a control freak was that he did not drink to excess (if that is one’s sole criteria, one’s radar is likely to be off!). So there are generational effects as well.

But I am not sure if the phrase passive drinking covers it - one inhales smoke as it is in the air and it does harm physiologically but not psychologically. The effects of alcohol abuse are much more violent, degrading, abusive. The fact that my father drank did a lot more damage than his smoking, absolutely.

Of course that is anecdata and I am too tired to really make a coherent point. I do think the rise of women’s drinking may coincide with the decrease in smoking (formerly also a coping mechanism for women) and the decrease in routine prescriptions of Valium!

When I was last in alcohol research, there were studies that were starting to debunk the idea of a safe level of alcohol consumption and that ‘risk’ increases straightaway. I will have to try to find a source tomorrow.

I am not sure of an alternative phrase for ‘passive consumption’ but you would hazard a guess that women could be more effected by this via DV, other partner abuse eg emotional, sexual assault etc.

YetAnotherSpartacus There were Sobranie Cocktails and also Sobranie Black Russians - black paper with gold filter.
They were my payday treat back in the day.

OMG the Sobranie Cocktail ciggies. Retro flashback to my mum thinking she was so sophisticated.

As for the alcohol issue I'll just add that my concern is that there seems to be a lot more 'girly' type drinks being promoted, such as vodka cruisers, and different flavoured ciders. Leaving the sexism of the idea of a girls drink aside ftm. The biggest concern is these drinks are essentially targeted to teenagers. Oh they do try and be subtle and throw in a disclaimer like "drink responsibly" but when the adds have the same imagery as soft drink and fast food - fun in the sun with friends - you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out their target demographic.

For a country like Australia with such high rates of alcohol consumption, it becomes not just a feminist issue but an everybody issue.

Oh dear! I may need a rethink on this topic... just had peek at twitter and Sally Hines is in fine form. Apologies if this is already mentioned but I was gobsmacked.

Her tweet (her spelling too) "Can transphobic lesbians still be "shagable?"

Yes, really.

Not that I'm judging mind, I'm sure there's a few of us that have sent a late night drunken tweet, text, comment (raises hand). It's the continuing to double down and defend it that's mind boggling.

Because reading that tweet I can only imagine two possible reasons for it.

a) Hit the sauce a tad too hard
b) Austin Powers hacked her twitter

Mner2019 I do not disagree with you, I just think passive does not convey the aggressive element which alcohol unleashes on others. But the concept itself deserves attention.

I would be interested to see the ‘safe drinking level’ debunked, because that is what, to my mind, differentiates it from smoking. But I think the points which make it a feminist issue are similar for smoking and drinking.

Some good points in here. Has certainly made me re assess my point of view.

KataraJean Have a look at the latest review of the alcohol guidelines: link here.

In the exec summ:

"Meta-analyses have identified that for some conditions, notably ischaemic heart disease (IHD), drinking alcohol at low levels may have a protective effect (compared to not drinking), particularly for all-cause mortality. However, the group noted that:
• any potential protective effect seems mainly relevant to older age groups;
• unresolved confounding and health selection (for instance, the health of people who can afford to drink more in older age may be better than those who do not) may explain a substantial part of the protection observed;
• mortality from IHD is continuing to decrease substantially; and
• the peak of any protective effect is achieved at very low levels of consumption (around one unit a day).

The group therefore concluded that the evidence supporting protective effects today is now weaker than it was at the time of the 1995 report and that there are substantial uncertainties around direct attribution to alcohol of the level of protection still observed. Taking
this into account alongside all the known acute and chronic risks to health from drinking even at low levels, supports the conclusion of the group that there is no justification for recommending drinking on health grounds, nor for starting drinking for health reasons."

Of note, a glass of wine is over one unit. It is more like 2-3 units.

KataraJean another thought to consider with these studies is who are the non-drinkers? Yes some people won't drink because of religious reasons (and may be a relatively stable group) but unless the studies are properly thought through, the non-drinker" category will also include ex-drinkers (with the full spectrum of ex-lower level consumers, ex-harmful drinkers, right through to ex-alcoholics), and people with chronic health conditions (alcohol-related or otherwise) who may have given up alcohol to boost their health.

Unless they are doing thorough screening, the non-drinker category could easily become confounded and not be a properly valid or reliable control group to be able to determinedly say that one unit is more beneficial than no drinks at all.

Advertisers are cut throat and if they are targetting women it's because they have spotted a demographic which isn't purchasing enough of their products for their liking.
Alcohol advertising has targetted almost exclusively men for decades, and now those execs realise they can make money from women too, so are targetting them.

Regarding a point above, where someone said craft beers come in smaller quantities (330ml) so they drink less alcohol, and women's drinks are more expensive:
DH is into his craft beer. His beers are generally 8, 9 or even 12% alcohol.
He has paid £4 for a third in a pub and regularly buys 330ml bottles for £5 or 6. I think he's bonkers.

Obviously it depends on which craft beer you choose - DH always opts for the lighter ones and occasionally has one bottle of one that is as high as 6% but wouldn't have more than one or two of those max in an evening (330ml bottles) and not on a night out when multiple drinks will be consumed.

When Stella Artois was being sold in the UK at 5.2% (v 4% average of other beers/lagers), it got that lovely name "wife beater".