Is alcohol a feminist issue?

[mirialis]

I don't frequent the board much so I did do a quick search but couldn’t see a discussion on this - apologies if this has already been done to death.

It’s Dry January time and during the last week or so I’ve listened to a few audiobooks/podcasts about women and alcohol. One that is not available in the UK on audio seems to be:

In Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol, award-winning journalist Anne Dowsett Johnston combines in-depth research with her own personal story of recovery, and delivers a groundbreaking examination of a shocking yet little recognized epidemic threatening society today: the precipitous rise in risky drinking among women and girls

With the feminist revolution, women have closed the gender gap in their professional and educational lives. They have also achieved equality with men in more troubling areas as well. In the U.S. alone, the rates of alcohol abuse among women have skyrocketed in the past decade. DUIs, “drunkorexia”, and health problems connected to drinking are all rising—a problem exacerbated by the alcohol industry itself

Battling for women’s dollars and leisure time, corporations have developed marketing strategies and products targeted exclusively to women.

I’ve heard her talk before about how women's metabolic and hormonal difference makes us more prone to addiction after prolonged drinking, to alcohol-related heart disease and cancers (particularly, of course breast cancer), to drink alcohol as a result of anxiety and depression (which is ultimately counterproductive) and so on. Her problem began with her being out at work all day and then coming home and being the one to prepare the family's dinner and oversee the homework and that having one or two glasses of wine helped her make that transition, equally true of SAHM who view it as a relaxation tool after a relentless day of childcare and housework that does not stop at 5pm but continues well into the evening. And of course childfree women in careers where part of networking and keeping up with the boys involves drinking as much - if not more - than the men, but ultimately this can lead to women sabotaging their full potential.

The (male-dominated) drinks industry made a concerted effort to specifically target women and it has worked out extremely well for them (and the government’s tax intake which far outstrips the NHS cost) but seems to be having a devastating effect on women. On top of it all, women - particularly mothers and pregnant women - tend to experience a lot of shame around drinking and so hide it more, preventing them from asking for help when they need it.

Gloria Steinem apparently dismissed Dowsett Johnston’s claims saying, "drinking is not a women’s issue" but the more I read and listen, the more I think it IS a women’s issue and whilst I reject the idea that women shouldn’t drink so much because it’s not ladylike, makes us somehow more irresponsible then men, or we ask for sexual assault and so on, we have reached a point where women need to help and support each other to stop being sucked into the idea that alcohol is "the modern women’s steroid, enabling her to wear so many hats" because it’s both harming us and holding us back.

I think feminism must just turn out to be the thing that actually inspires me to become mindful of drinking.

That post's a bit random reflectant!

This is supposed to be a thread discussing alcohol as a feminist issue.

You drop in to say anyone who can or has drunk a bottle of wine on their own is an alcoholic and needs help.

I can't see how that's in context.

If you want to discuss individuals drinking histories and issues and so forth then another thread might be better for that.

Many posts on here flag that women have specific barriers to seeking help with alcohol issues, and I've mentioned that AA is apaprently well known for harbouring predatory men.

You come on as say "get help".

Well that's useful. Any ideas on how to remove the barriers that women face in getting this help, then?

The word for people who drink a bottle of wine in a few hours on their own is "alcoholic".

I personally don't understand the drinking alone bit, if I'm at home I don't have to worry about strangers and I don't get pressured to drink more than I'm comfortable with.

Placemarking.

Actually I do think I - and many other women like me - have "a problem", hence my thinking about this subject and posting, but not because I could drink the equivalent of a bottle of wine over the space of one night out. Plenty of people can and do drink a bottle of wine without being alcoholics and it's deeply unhelpful for you to pop up with that "get help" as NOTA points out.

NOTA - that is interesting about AA being known for predators and bookwormish's point about services failing women and being male-dominated spaces. It seems there is a lot on the net about the sexist language of AA and its disregard for women.

One of the women who wrote one of the audiobooks I listed to - I think The Sober Diaries - did start to talk about drinking alone at home (which I, like you, understand poses less threat in many ways - no one to pressure you, spike your drink, assault you etc.) and I think this was again on the back of it being a concern because it seems that alcohol-dependent women have a different narrative around/relationship with booze, with it being anxiety/stress related. I will go back maybe and listen to it again at some point.

I did also listen to a podcast with two sober women talking and I found it a bit full on with asking "God" for help and and stuff but one of them was listing books by women because this area (alcoholic memoir, how to get sober, AA etc.) had been so dominated by "dudes".

They did mention Naked Mind by Annie Grace that I think a pp mentioned here that they loved because it focused on women, that I will give a listen to.

It’s worth considering as well that the way we understand and treat alcoholism is incredibly gendered, and that could very plausibly mean that women are not finding it easy to seek the treatment they might need for addiction.

There is a new thing like AA but without the God bit i saw some people chatting about, rational recovery or something.

Or at least it was new to me, may not be new-new!

Doesn't help with the predator thing but I know a lot are put off by the spiritual side of AA > higher power and all that.

In general women tend to be judged harder and more guilty around this sort of thing than men & I do wonder if when women odentify problem drinking in themselves (correctly) it's sometimes at levels that most men wouldn't really think twice about? With men being more fed a narrative that they are their own boss and it's a man thing to do and stuff... Not sure on that just thinking out loud.

My experience of alcohol support services (non anon) was fuckign appalling and while I have told someone else it's not the thread for personal stuff, while I'm thinking of it, I would strongly advise any women with younger childrent to get anon advice rather than other means. The sexism in my experience was breathtaking (was referred to a 3rd party provider).

Anyway, back on track

The booze comapnies saw a massive untapped market in the, what, 70s / 80s and that's when the marketing took a different turn, maybe.

Ohohohohohoh

Genderised beverages
Just thought
Money
How much do you spend in the pub with male gendered rounds vs female

How much is 4 pints of even fancy craft beer vs 4 glasses of wine?

I don't know I don't drink any more!

Yes, I'm really early on the reading and thinking on this but from what I've gleaned from some of thing things I heard Dowsett Johnson say (and she's NOT aren't women behaving awfully and let's ban alcohol at all), the spirits industry in particular were going into decline and looked at the thriving beer industry and thought what do we do here and then spirits (luxury/pink gins, vodkas, whisky for women, SITC style cocktails etc.) and alchopops for younger people started to get a heavy push.

And the simple fact is that women - as we all know very well on these thread - are significantly biologically different from men and have different social and familial experiences and pressures from men and so it's great that we have the freedom to do exactly what men do when it comes to drinking (date rape, you asked for it because you were drunk etc etc aside) we really need to get our guard up against this.

At home drinking for primary childcarers (aka women) to take the edge off the tedium and isolation of wifework is definitely normalised, especially if it's just a glass or two of wine to get you through...

And yes, "girly" drinks DO cost more than manly ones.

It's interesting too that I remember reading something about one of the new alcohol free "gins" and how expensive it is, and part of that they claim is all the care and ingredients blah, blah, blah but part of it is that it needs to feel "glam" and "luxury" and price is associated with that.

Of course it’s a feminist issue.

-everything is a feminist issue-

A woman who drinks 30 units a week for 30 years is a lot more likely to die of liver cirrhosis than a man.

women are drinking differently from men and women handle alcohol differently from men but still there are places of work where women need to be in the bar if they are going to successfully network

This is what tall glasses of seltzer with wedges of lime were invented for. That's an old trick that men practice as well.

Girly and fancy drinks lead to hangovers. Sweet obscures the alcohol, so people drink more.

I have several alcoholics in my immediate family. Not one was led into it by advertising or even social pressure. (If a drunk is gonna yell at you to drink more, a drunk is gonna yell at you to drink more and won't remember it the next day.) All were led into it by trauma - over reliance on a substance to overcome the existence of trauma.

There are other ways to handle it (and hopefully resources available.).

There are plenty of issues that touch on feminism around alcohol, including some trauma, but commercialization, self medicating and the lack of control/ability to drink without physical cost that leads to alcoholism aren't, in my opinion.

Women have agency.

I'm not sure what seltzer is, is it a new thing in bars? I associate it with americans having hangovers but I've never been sure what it actually is!

I used seltzer instead of club soda, but it means carbonated water. It's not new -- bars that serve mixed drinks have used it forever.

(It's used in old memes for helping with hangovers, but it's main value is hydration).

Throw in a slice or lime, an ice cube and it looks like a alcoholic beverage. Serious networkers do that all the time.

KindofGeek - what do you put the big rise in female drinking and the normalisation of daily mummy juice etc. down to? Surely we are not experiencing greater trauma now than before?

Females drinking is not necessarily alcoholism.

Females drinking more these days is the relaxation of social taboo that said "good girls don't drink".

College life also drives a lot of hard drinking these days. I'm not saying that isn't a problem. It is, but while there is a difference between how men and women process alcohol, the problem is there for the male students as well.

The ADDITIONAL problems caused by hard drinking for women are cause for feminist concern, but the problem of hard drinking is a problem for both sexes.

I've never understood this idea that drinking alone is automatically suspicious. I like to drink alone sometimes because it's cheaper, more convenient and less hassly than drinking in a pub - not that I don't enjoy the latter too. If I get horribly drunk when out, I could get robbed, attacked, get the wrong bus and end up on the other side of town etc. When I drink at home, the worst than can really happen is that I have a rotten hangover the next day.

I'd like to stress that of course, I don't think it's a good thing to get very drunk wherever you are. Just that I don't see why drinking alone = alcoholic.

KindofGeegk - actually I think the issue here is about how easy it is to cross from "hard drinking" to alcoholism no matter what (whereas you seem to think alcoholism stems from trauma and if you got the yell you got the yell or whatever). I think the increase in female alcoholism is coming from the normalisation of daily drinking for women who have children/can't have children/career/SAHM and women are gradually slipping over the edge without rolling about in the park with 2 litres of strongbow and not feeling in a position to ask for help if they need it or get adequate help if they do ask.

've never understood this idea that drinking alone is automatically suspicious

If this is back to my point about "3 250ml glasses is a bottle" post, I didn't mean "alone" to mean "in a room on your own", I meant alone to mean "the entire contents of a bottle of wine were consumed by you, solely".

See, I get a little hard core here, with cause.

If you make drinking a "women's issue" 1. you're taking away agency from women and 2. you're a mockery of what is a serious health issue -- alcoholism.

For the record, people can drink heavily and even alone for a short period of time without veering in the least toward dependency. For the record, people can also drink a little every day for a long period of time and not be alcoholic.

It's not crack cocaine.

An alcoholic has a problem solely when they cannot get through days without alcohol.

Educating women on what alcohol can do to them is a fine idea. Telling people there are other things to do in life is also excellent.

But, if you don't like the "normalization" of alcohol consumption and you're not an alcoholic, it's quite easy to arrange your life around avoiding it entirely.

If you make drinking a "women's issue" 1. you're taking away agency from women and 2. you're a mockery of what is a serious health issue -- alcoholism.

Why is making drinking a women's issue taking agency away from women? I l do not get this at all. I am not saying women should not be "allowed" to drink and men should be able to. I am talking about an aspect of a problem that affects women in a different way to men for both biological and social reasons - are you trying to say there is no biological or societal influence that differs between women and men?? I find that a weird claim at the best of times, let alone on a feminist forum.

You say that it's not crack cocaine - no it's not, it's causing way MORE problems than crack cocaine and it is entirely legal and normal.

You say an alcoholic has a problem solely when they cannot get through days without alcohol. A) that's not true. Please, post some actual hard facts here and not just your opinion because I know alcoholics who actively made themselves get through days without alcohol in order to stop themselves going to get help that would mean they had to stop altogether B) the message that is being pumped at WOMEN is that they don't need to get through a day without alcohol and they don't deserve to have to do that, because daily drinking is NOT the problem. But you are saying that is THE problem and at the same time saying that the messages being pumped at women are irrelevant and it's all about whether you "get the call" or not or "have trauma" or not.

And how on earth does it make a mockery of alcoholism?

I meant alone to mean "the entire contents of a bottle of wine were consumed by you, solely".

I've drunk the entire contents of a bottle of wine alone. Not often, but I've done it more than once. And I'm certainly not a alcoholic, nor do I have a drinking problem at all. In fact, I spent several years in a country where alcohol is banned and managed fine.

Ok let's try it another way, because you don't understand.

Alcohol consumption is the symptom long before it's the disease. It is not nearly as addictive as most other substances, and there is an element of choice along the way.

People drink heavily for various reasons, most of them because they are not having a fun time in life. If you have fun at a bar or a pub, that's expected. If you need to go back to that bar every night because it's the only place you have fun, it's because there is something else going on.

If you're a woman who drinks, the same logic applies. Regardless of the sex differences, the logic behind alcohol consumption applies.

If you're a woman who drinks and someone you don't know comes in to the bar and says "Shame on you! You're the guardian of the species!" you might hit that someone with your purse and call them a sexist cow.

And you would be right whether or not you're an alcoholic.

The problem is not the drug women use to self medicate; its the fact that their lives under capitalist and patriarchal rule are unnatural and unsatisfying. Its the symptom not the dis-ease. Userschmoozer I agree.
I'd like to also add that the recovery industry in the US is often off the boards misogynist.12 steps and faith based programs are in the hands of the pharma/insurance monopolization. It's a capitalist venture which has no regard for women or our liberation