Is alcohol a feminist issue?

[mirialis]

I don't frequent the board much so I did do a quick search but couldn’t see a discussion on this - apologies if this has already been done to death.

It’s Dry January time and during the last week or so I’ve listened to a few audiobooks/podcasts about women and alcohol. One that is not available in the UK on audio seems to be:

In Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol, award-winning journalist Anne Dowsett Johnston combines in-depth research with her own personal story of recovery, and delivers a groundbreaking examination of a shocking yet little recognized epidemic threatening society today: the precipitous rise in risky drinking among women and girls

With the feminist revolution, women have closed the gender gap in their professional and educational lives. They have also achieved equality with men in more troubling areas as well. In the U.S. alone, the rates of alcohol abuse among women have skyrocketed in the past decade. DUIs, “drunkorexia”, and health problems connected to drinking are all rising—a problem exacerbated by the alcohol industry itself

Battling for women’s dollars and leisure time, corporations have developed marketing strategies and products targeted exclusively to women.

I’ve heard her talk before about how women's metabolic and hormonal difference makes us more prone to addiction after prolonged drinking, to alcohol-related heart disease and cancers (particularly, of course breast cancer), to drink alcohol as a result of anxiety and depression (which is ultimately counterproductive) and so on. Her problem began with her being out at work all day and then coming home and being the one to prepare the family's dinner and oversee the homework and that having one or two glasses of wine helped her make that transition, equally true of SAHM who view it as a relaxation tool after a relentless day of childcare and housework that does not stop at 5pm but continues well into the evening. And of course childfree women in careers where part of networking and keeping up with the boys involves drinking as much - if not more - than the men, but ultimately this can lead to women sabotaging their full potential.

The (male-dominated) drinks industry made a concerted effort to specifically target women and it has worked out extremely well for them (and the government’s tax intake which far outstrips the NHS cost) but seems to be having a devastating effect on women. On top of it all, women - particularly mothers and pregnant women - tend to experience a lot of shame around drinking and so hide it more, preventing them from asking for help when they need it.

Gloria Steinem apparently dismissed Dowsett Johnston’s claims saying, "drinking is not a women’s issue" but the more I read and listen, the more I think it IS a women’s issue and whilst I reject the idea that women shouldn’t drink so much because it’s not ladylike, makes us somehow more irresponsible then men, or we ask for sexual assault and so on, we have reached a point where women need to help and support each other to stop being sucked into the idea that alcohol is "the modern women’s steroid, enabling her to wear so many hats" because it’s both harming us and holding us back.

I think feminism must just turn out to be the thing that actually inspires me to become mindful of drinking.

I've certainly seen a lot of Schweppes adverts effectively promotion alcohol.
Some for Hendricks.
More in the cinema though - I don't watch much live tv

www.asa.org.uk/topic/Alcohol.html
This is interesting.
I wonder if advertising restrictions have resulted in an increased focus on the quality of the drink in tv advertising.

Whereas the gendered stuff is happening more insidiously now - 'why mummy drinks'/'wine o'clock' etc

Where are you NOT seeing the ads?

www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/diageo-launches-data-responsive-outdoor-campaign-five-brands/1489143

"The campaign – devised by Carat and location marketing specialist Posterscope in partnership with Liveposter – sees each brand’s activity triggered by its own unique datasets and criteria.

Gin ads:

"Triggers such as the weather and time of day will determine which brand is being advertised at any given time, as well as the creative message being used"

"Screen locations are near to railway stations, parks and open spaces and on and off-trade stockists, and the campaign – which use the JCDecaux LDN network - will be optimised each hour by location to make it specific to the audience in the area"

^ to me those all look like ads targeting women...?

The MN was a commemoration to zombie (despite her being a whiskey drinker. So I see that as quite a separate thing.

The guidance on drinking at a level which is unlikely to cause damage to health is the same for men and women - stick to whatever the recommendation is for total weekly units (based on typical size and liver function, may vary), do not drink every day, do not drink when driving or operating machinery.

Both men and women breach those guidelines. I don't see that problematic drinking is a feminist issue. But certain issues in society (which may lead some individuals into destructive behaviours) very much are.

Where are you NOT seeing the ads?

The link you posted requires anyone viewing to be logged in. From what can be seen I don't recall seeing any of the adverts.

Good thread OP yes of course alcohol is a feminist issue and I think a big piece is as a PP mentioned the difficulty / or reluctance to seek supprt by women and esp women with children.

Agree with another PP that it's self medication that has always happened, the substance may change. Getting at the root of why so many women (and men) and girls (and boys) are trying to take themselves out with a chemical cosh would be great but asks big questions of society.

Another point re getting help - I have read many times that AA is full of predators, and of course nothing can be done as it's anon etc. It's a place where vulnerable women will be - and more may take that route due to fears around consequences if they take the non anon route (mainstream services) esp if they have kids.

There was a good article a couple of years back I read about one womans experiences with work and life and drinking I will try to find it.

Last thought on feminist issue. Men still drink more and to more dangerous levels than women but its womens drinking that makes the news more esp in a handwrining way. I see this as an effect of women generally being policed more in their behaviour (while with men its more their business) >> even though from what I can gather its mens behviour due to drink that has a much bigger negative impact on society (violence, dv, cost to nhs, etc).

I mean you never see film on the news of hgangs of drunk women streaming through foreign cities with makeshift weapons, targeting and attacking people,

But from reading the press sometimes tou'd think it was drunk women who were causing most of the trouble.

Really - I'm not logged in? Ok. You may not recall seeing them but the point is that alcohol advertising is everywhere - it's not just about telly and cinema ads today - not least as people have switched to ad-free streaming etc. - but there are ads are everywhere outdoors and on the trains, buses and so on, plus social media, online newspapers and magazines and probably Mumsnet.

NothingOnTelly - yes, I do completely understand the resistance to women being policed on this when male drinking is more harmful to society but I do think it's a women's issue because it is harming and holding back women, and that's something I care about. One of those gin ads (with "girly glasses") was "no time for your 5pm gin?" or something like that and as has been said it feels like this "you need a drink to make it through the day" narrative is being directed at women more than men.

Definitely an issue in that it often makes men violent.

That's very interesting, thanks! Will read in more detail later.

I've recently read Jenni Murray's History of Britain in 21 Women, and a fair few of the politically active ones prioritised the reduction of drunkenness and its impacts. I had assumed this was due to men pissing their wage up against the wall and leaving their kids hungry/beating their wives, but maybe the legislation was designed to help women directly too.

YY agree booze is being (has been) genderised and sales push towards groups of women boozing away in a cheery glittery manner poss while doing something like making cupcakes.

The thing that always confused me was why in the pub beer / lager are seen as more of a mens drink > while spirits and wine as seen as for women when they are MUCH more alcoholic. I know you aren't supposed to drink it in the same volume but when you add in the increase in size of wine servings / spirits offers etc (do they still do that?) and the relative size of men and women (on average) then is seems a bit odd.

And although we (female friends) all drank lager and cider by the pint when we were young pretty much all of them stick to gender rules now. I've observed this and the gist is it's too much fluid for them these days. More pissing due to getting older / kids? Don't know. Effect though is that women are on the hard stuff :/ I'd be much more pissed after 4 large glasses of wine than 4 pints!

Yes, it's like I said, we were all on super strong pretty cocktails in our youth of the SITC days while the boys were drinking 3-4% lager and today it's spirits like gin and 14% wine/prosecco in enormous glasses/doubles and in the pub my male friends who do differently are gay and less inclined to conform to the macho pint thing. I have very few female friends who drink pints these days like we used to when we went to gigs and stuff.

3 large (250 ml) glasses of wine in pub = 10-11 units.
3 pints of 4% lager is 6-7 units

And if you're on the craft beer out of 330ml bottle it's even fewer units. My DH is almost twice the size of me but I'm drinking almost twice as much alcohol as him if we go to the pub for an equal number of drinks.

When I was a lad in my twenties, I used to drink lager or beer, and I can honestly say that my mates and I never got into fights or vandalised anything. Nowadays I drink mostly red wine (or a jug of Pimms in the Summer with my good wife), about three or four large glasses is my limit, and it has the effect of putting me to sleep.
I used to belong to a wine society which had monthly meetings, and there were roughly equal numbers of men and women. What was interesting, is that there was a definite split between the sexes on taste/palate, with most of the blokes preferring red or drier whites, and the women preferring white, slightly sweeter wines. So, many of the women would like New World Chardonnays/Prosecco/Pinot Grigio and the blokes would largely vote (we used to grade the wines at the end of the evening) for Old World reds and drier Whites such as Rhone Valley or Chablis.
When I think about advertising on the TV, it is mostly beer adverts - Stella Artois, Guiness, Carlsberg, whisky such as Famous Grouse. Alcohol advertising in sport is huge, and I think largely aimed at men - Heineken Cup (rugby), All Blacks - Steinlager, South Africa - Castle Lager.
At the end of the day, I think alcohol abuse/addiction is not so much about men or women, but about individuals and self control.

Those numbers are really interesting.

So why are the stronger drinks genderised to the smaller people?

On average the women will end up much more pissed than the men.

We know who this advantages, it cant' be a conspiracy, but why then? It should logically be the other way around.

Gosh women do have such a sweet tooth.

Explains all that chocolate and cake

andy - the point is that it is really increasing amongst women, who are being targeted in a different way from men, not that problem drinking is limited to one sex or another.

"At the end of the day, I think alcohol abuse/addiction is not so much about men or women, but about individuals and self control."

The individualist "no such thing as society someone elses problem" approach.

It's not for me >
An individualist "you made your bed now lie in it" idea is zero use when battling stuff like obesity, abuse of alcohol... As with tobacco, there is a massive industry behind it who want to make money at all costs, with zero regard for the impact on society. Big tobacco have move to vaping now > which to my eye is squarely targeted at young people. As with smoking, when it comes to booze, to put no restrictions in place on their activities and say oh well you're addicted tough you should have had more self control is rather a callous "solution" and expensive (on the NHS and wider impacts on society across the board).

You're entitled to your views obviously but I disagree with them.

Really - I'm not logged in?

Second wave feminists used to meet to do consciousness raising, and that included exercises such as deconstructing advertising to learn how it impacts us. Once you understand sales techniques and examine your response to them, it acts as a kind of vaccine.

Personally I think that studying sales techniques is one of the most useful things feminist can do for themselves. They are used in so many different areas by a wide range of people, including 'pick up artists'.

I'd love to see someone write about them from a feminist perspective.

"The individualist "no such thing as society someone elses problem" approach."

Well, I certainly agree that people should get help if they need it, but we should also do what other countries have done and ban the advertising of alcohol.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_advertising

I would also like to see a change in the licensing hours - reign them in, restrict them.
I think drinking habits have changed enormously over the decades. If my wife's younger work colleagues are to be believed, then a lot of younger people tank up before going out for an evening - men and women. Then they seem to regularly have shot drinking contests. Then there is the aftermath, where drunken men and women cause a lot of trouble, breaking windows, fighting etc.
The problem with the huge companies and their advertising - drink, smoking, fast food etc., is that they are the ones pledging money to the political parties (all parties), they are the ones lobbying and they are the ones who dictate policy.
The whole situation stinks.

Wine and gin used to be for upper classes, the middle classes adopted them in the boom years after WW(presumably 2)

Hogarth's print "Gin Lane", depicting the effects of gin on the poor, was published in 1751. Temperance, particularly regarded spirits, was a socialist progressive cause through the late 19th and early 20th century and although it is popular to mock British licensing laws as being about munitions work, in fact limiting access for the working classes to strong drink was a paternalist progressive cause throughout the world, with prohibition starting in 1920 in the USA being the culmination of campaigns from groups we would now see as broadly progressive. Band of Hope, now Hope UK, was formed in the mid nineteenth century.

The idea that concerns about alcohol mis/over/whatever-use amongst the general public is a post-war issue is absurd. The idea that drinking was confined to the upper classes before 1940 is simply ahistorical.

3 large (250 ml) glasses of wine in pub = 10-11 units.

The word for people who drink a bottle of wine in a few hours on their own is "alcoholic". If you are drinking that quantity of alcohol in one evening get help.