Is alcohol a feminist issue?

[mirialis]

I don't frequent the board much so I did do a quick search but couldn’t see a discussion on this - apologies if this has already been done to death.

It’s Dry January time and during the last week or so I’ve listened to a few audiobooks/podcasts about women and alcohol. One that is not available in the UK on audio seems to be:

In Drink: The Intimate Relationship Between Women and Alcohol, award-winning journalist Anne Dowsett Johnston combines in-depth research with her own personal story of recovery, and delivers a groundbreaking examination of a shocking yet little recognized epidemic threatening society today: the precipitous rise in risky drinking among women and girls

With the feminist revolution, women have closed the gender gap in their professional and educational lives. They have also achieved equality with men in more troubling areas as well. In the U.S. alone, the rates of alcohol abuse among women have skyrocketed in the past decade. DUIs, “drunkorexia”, and health problems connected to drinking are all rising—a problem exacerbated by the alcohol industry itself

Battling for women’s dollars and leisure time, corporations have developed marketing strategies and products targeted exclusively to women.

I’ve heard her talk before about how women's metabolic and hormonal difference makes us more prone to addiction after prolonged drinking, to alcohol-related heart disease and cancers (particularly, of course breast cancer), to drink alcohol as a result of anxiety and depression (which is ultimately counterproductive) and so on. Her problem began with her being out at work all day and then coming home and being the one to prepare the family's dinner and oversee the homework and that having one or two glasses of wine helped her make that transition, equally true of SAHM who view it as a relaxation tool after a relentless day of childcare and housework that does not stop at 5pm but continues well into the evening. And of course childfree women in careers where part of networking and keeping up with the boys involves drinking as much - if not more - than the men, but ultimately this can lead to women sabotaging their full potential.

The (male-dominated) drinks industry made a concerted effort to specifically target women and it has worked out extremely well for them (and the government’s tax intake which far outstrips the NHS cost) but seems to be having a devastating effect on women. On top of it all, women - particularly mothers and pregnant women - tend to experience a lot of shame around drinking and so hide it more, preventing them from asking for help when they need it.

Gloria Steinem apparently dismissed Dowsett Johnston’s claims saying, "drinking is not a women’s issue" but the more I read and listen, the more I think it IS a women’s issue and whilst I reject the idea that women shouldn’t drink so much because it’s not ladylike, makes us somehow more irresponsible then men, or we ask for sexual assault and so on, we have reached a point where women need to help and support each other to stop being sucked into the idea that alcohol is "the modern women’s steroid, enabling her to wear so many hats" because it’s both harming us and holding us back.

I think feminism must just turn out to be the thing that actually inspires me to become mindful of drinking.

No. I had an alcoholic mother. I am not a stranger to women with drinking problems. But alcohol is very much a societal issue that affects both men and women .

I drink beer because I like beer. It tastes delicious. The huge variety of craft and micro breweries that have appeared in recent years are producing beer of unprecedented diversity, complexity and variety. There has never been a better time to be a beer enthusiast.

I will continue to enjoy beer and I couldn’t possibly care less what some patronising, sanctimonious writer thinks about it.

Which patronising, sanctimonious writer thinks you shouldn't enjoy beer? Or wine? Or spirits?

And who is denying that alcohol is a problem for both men and women in the UK - does that somehow stop something being a women's issue?

I've only just seen this thread. I'm an alcoholic, in fact I plan to celebrate 30 years of sobriety in April. I've never been aware of sexism in AA. It's an amazing organisation.

I have never been aware of predators in AA and I've been to meetings in a number of places. Entering into relationships with newcomers is very much frowned on. It's called 13th stepping, I.e a step too far.

In fact when I was helping an old male friend get sober I was (very politely) questioned as to why I, obviously an old hand, was escorting a newcomer to meetings. People at the meeting wanted to be sure my motives were pure.

However I've looked at online American AA forums and was horrified to see that it's a significant problem there. This is largely because AA in the USA accepts referrals from the courts. So you have sometimes quite serious offenders who have to have their card stamped to prove they've been at their AA meeting. But the other members aren't told that this man has a criminal record. That's against the principles of AA and it exposes women members in particular to potentially dangerous men. In fact a woman was murdered there.

But, as I said, I've never heard a whisper of sexual exploitation here in the UK. We know newcomers are incredibly vulnerable - but sex isn't the main issue. The danger is that they become close to someone with shaky sobriety and then, when their mentor relapses they do too.

There's also the risk that two newcomers get close - no exploitation - and then both relapse.

Once you're going to meetings it's suggested that you look for a sponsor - basically a mentor, someone with years of good sobriety. Your sponsor should be of the same sex. Unless you're same sex attracted.

Some of the most valuable times in an AA meeting are the chats outside. At those times groups tend to split along sex lines.

As you can imagine I can say a lot about alcoholism, AA and drinking generally. But this post is epic already.

That's very interesting prawn, and I think you must be right about the US version of rehab and AA being different because you get court-ordered attendance.

In your time at AA, are you/have you been aware of sex differences around the issue of alcohol? Have things changed over the past 3 decades in your experience?

Racecardriver wrote - "No... alcohol is very much a societal issue that affects both men and women"

This is not a reason why alcohol is not a feminist issue.

A feminist issue is something that affects female people.
A feminist issue does not have to be something that affects only female people.

Interesting. I think alcohol is pushed heavily at both sexes - along with cheap sugar, crap telly etc as distraction from how shit life can be. There is no doubt that the UK has a problem with booze.

I think there’s definitely sex based differences in marketing. It’s ‘lads’ for the men and ‘Prosecco o clock’ for women. I’m still not sure that it’s disproportionately marketed at women or a specifically feminist issue (happy to change my mind on that if I see a good argument...)

Where I do think it’s an issue that disproportionately affects women is services to support women with alcohol issues during pregnancy - that sort of thing is affected a lot by austerity.

So yes and no. Some alcohol based issues affect women more (differences in metabolism and pregnancy) but I’m still not convinced this is a specifically feminist issue

That's very interesting and good news Prawn, thank you.

Earlier upthread I said that from my experience, anon support is best for women esp if they have kids. My experience of non anon was shocking (sexist). So AA is a good option.

Do you know anythign about Rational Recovery?

mirialis, I went to meetings about five times a week for the first couple of years then two for another six. By that point I hadn't wanted to drink for all that time. I also had two small DC. Having got the blessing from the AA member I most respected I then stopped going.

I have never kept my alcoholism any kind of secret and I've got a few people in, most recently two and a half years ago (the male friend I was questioned about). I went with him for the first six months but I was eager for him to make male contacts so I took a back seat. I was his sponsor short term, but I would never have done that for a male stranger. He soon got a proper one

So there's a big gap in the middle when I didn't go to meetings.

The difference now is the proportion of women in AA. It's risen, though men are still in the majority. And people are getting sober younger. Both are very good news.

I don't know if people are aware how strong the genetic component is. Obviously people learn their drinking within the family, but the genetic component is very important too.

Alcohol is def a feminist issue > this does not imply that men are not affected but that many facets are not the same or not quite the same

Policing of womens drinking by society / media is different
Issues around women and men drinking and what they do > women are blamed men seem to be let off hook to a certain extent "boys will be boys" this ties into point 1. Also around sex offences. Men more likely to commit when drunk but it's always the woman's fault and consumption of any alcohol at all is seen to be "asking for it"
Alcohol also used as most popular "date rape" drug > or even just in a predatory manner (plying girls and women with booze / encouraging them to drink more or lying about what's in drinks)
Reluctance to access support which is related to fears about interventions around children > I don't know if men worry about this so much and from my experience the attitudes towards mums who drink and dads who drink is VERY different in support services

Then there's the weird stuff. Why are "girly" drinks the more alcoholic ones? I have NEVER understood this!!!

Sure there is more :)

No, I know nothing about Rational Recovery, NothingOnTellyAgain. It wasn't around 30 years ago. I was desperate to stop drinking but anti AA for reasons that would take too long to explain, so I tried everything else on offer. Nothing worked. I was suicidal.

Then, finally, my parents got me into a 12 step rehab. About a fortnight in the penny dropped. It was a road to Damascus moment. I have never wanted to drink since. For me, AA was the only thing that worked.

I was very shocked by the open heavy drinking discussed by mums at the school gate. Wine o'clock and mummy's special juice... I notice how most birthday cards for women reference alcohol. It's relatively new.

Thanks for the correct date for Gin Lane and even the image ⭐️

I thought eighteenth century but I remember the Beer Act being 1830 so mixed it up. Beer Street is nice and well-maintained compared to Gin Lane. Beer was seen to be better as less strong that spirits, probably also safer than water at that point (speculating here).

Good points nothing...

Was that 'small beer'?

Yes.

Why do you think it's small beer? The people drinking beer in the Beer Street picture certainly look merry to me. If gin's being compared to beer then I'd guess beer is being presented as a alcoholic drink not small beer, surely?

Interesting discussion. I'm on the Dry January threads and it often comes up about the ubiquitousness of prosecco/gin particularly on social media. And I agree there's a world of difference how a drunk man (hilarious) is compared to a drunk woman (tragic).

@YetAnotherSpartacus - the cigarettes you're thinking of were sobranie - pastel colour papers and gold filters. I used to think I was sophisticated when I used them as my 'going out cigarettes' in the late eighties.

The word for people who drink a bottle of wine in a few hours on their own is "alcoholic". If you are drinking that quantity of alcohol in one evening get help

Im fairly positive thats not the definition of alcoholic

Not in this country, but I remember being in the US and being surprised by how openly Virginia Slims were marketed at women. Very slim cigarettes were definitely a woman’s cigarette.

In terms of alcohol and indeed tobacco use, I may be wrong but I think the perception that the drinker/smoker is male and this has historically been a male habit surely has had an impact on how related diseases are researched and recognised and related health education.

So the perception that women are not quite respectable if they drink means that alcohol-related diseases are not usually female diseases. It is probably more obvious with smoking where lung cancer was definitely associated with men who smoked heavily. So surely that is a feminist issue as well.

Beer Street - yes, they are merry but the street is not in disrepair and babies are not falling out of their drunken mothers’ arms.

not usually seen as female diseases I mean

It's an interesting issue. I remember watching a documentary a few years ago, where wine producers/ad people were interviewed re the shift in the late 70s/early 80s from wine being something almost exclusively consumed by the middle/upper classes, rarely on the menu in pubs etc to being so popular as it is today.
They explained, in no uncertain terms, that the shift was women. It was because more women were going into the work place, having their own money, women were starting to venture into pubs to socialise (previously only certain 'type' of women would be seen in a pub) and because women were unlikely to want to drink big, manly pints...something elegant in a dainty glass for women's little hands etc. René Pogel wine was a brand which LITERALLY was LEG OPENER spelled backwards.

Some posters have argued that alcohol isn’t a feminist issue because it affects everyone. But if we say something is a feminist issue we surely mean- it is capable of being analysed in feminist terms, ie in terms of the gendered social expectations of women, our role in society, and women’s specific needs, economic social or medical.

And if you look at it this way: certain forms of alcohol are clearly marketed in a way that ties in with the stereotypical ways we’re encouraged to see ourselves, fun, pink and giggly, Prosecco o’clock; women often drink to cope with the burden of childcare and work, in an environment where often men take on a very minor share of the exhausting domestic burden (self medication); women are often the victims of alcohol fuelled violence in the home; and alcohol has significant medical effects for us, particularly at the high strengths we’re encouraged to drink it (pink gin, white wine, breast cancer).

So, isn’t this obviously susceptible to feminist analysis?

Menthol cigarettes were almost exclusively aimed at women.
And black people, in the US
Uptown
I'm not sure marketing has done anything other than identify a market and target it. Men still get beer gift sets and t-shirts with brewer names on and beer branded slippers and their magazines are full of adverts for crap quality whisky. The pink sparkly prosecco tat that seems to be everywhere is just an exploitation. The 90s were alcopop years from 2005! but now nobody buys or drinks them.
A pp referenced pre-drinks. Young people mostly do that because it's cheap, and the venue they are going to is either too expensive or too difficult to do any serious drinking in. So they get pissed in their mate's kitchen and save the venue for selfies. This is quite common.
I think alcohol is a feminist issue insofar as judgement is biased (women suffer more) treatment is unequal (men have better provision) etc.
I also think these are apt questions still:
1. Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days?
2. Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do?
There are ten more, here
Defensiveness about alcohol is always obvious.

@MissFitton - thank you! It must have been these! I remember being offered one as a joke (their joke, obviously) and then getting upset when of course they didn't mean it. I even remember the flat tray - all very elegant. I never smoked btw! As a 60s and 70s child, I still remember the awfulness of a room where everybody smoked and there was a blue-grey haze above.