Powerful R4Woman's Hour 'transwidow' interview with a woman describing the devastating impact of her husband's transition on her, their marriage and children.

[R0wantrees]

'Michelle's' experience described in an interview today is very moving and powerful.
She describes how the voices of the partners, wives and children of men who transition are silenced.
Its a very eloquent and nuanced discussion & important listening.
'Michelle'

'Yesterday and today we look at the impact of the decision to Transition on marriage and family relationships. Yesterday we heard from Stephanie Jones when she transitioned from male to female and became, as she describes it, a "stranger in her own home". Today we hear from Michele whose ex-husband transitioned after they had been married for 16 years.'
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001xsf

I hope someone transcribes her words

how do you know that the majority are incels?

Thinking that many of these men are incells is not the same as knowing that the majority of them are

Going from male to female is seen as a massive loss of status

Yesterday's Times article interviewing Sandra Forgues talking about transitioning aged 46 seemed to prompt a great deal of sympathy as well as admiration from the male sports journalist which seems a common response from some men.
Is the perceived loss in status why M2F transition is regarded as brave by many?

Forgues wife's response is described (their marriage also ended) as well as their children. It is of course only one person's perspective, the husband & father who has 'transitioned'. As 'Michele' describes, the voices and experiences of wives and children are not heard and rarely celebrated.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e4757ede-11ec-11e9-8239-c0a124428b01?fbclid=IwAR2GPXHn1CGUi2Eb0Rx7dWqrhjleA-wnLkzC7V188dJNjGKFLPTbonr5l_A
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3472394-Sandra-Forgues-becoming-a-woman-was-a-victory-more-profound-than-the-Olympic-title

and that photo of Pippa Bunce ....I feel as if that really speaks to what is going on

I completely agree. Is that a gift in his hand, ready to present to the object of his dreams?

I've always thought that a lot of transitioning is far more about how you want to be treated, rather than how you want to present/act.

They truly don't see themselves the way the rest of the world does. It's interesting, in a slightly offputting way.

how do you know that the majority are incels?

I was thinking of those who aren't shy about their identity online. Call it a hunch.

I can't lay my hands on it now, but there is a survey that would indicate man who transition have smallest possible dating pool.

And of course, if you're a man and your sexual target is a lesbian, that's not going to help.

OK.. I just thought that thinking along the autogynephilia lines.. And the idea that these men are looking for sexual gratification by transforming themselves into the women they want because they are incels and sexually frustrated. If they transition they will always have that compliant consenting woman to hand. But I wondered if that actually was the driver

Abigail Rowland's powerful speech at LAWS Plymouth last year. (1:18)

"Abigail is a poet, writer and former teacher, also a 'former transwidow'

In the Pippa Bunce photo I think that pink item in his hand is clothing but it looks like a heart

there is a man in the white shirt also gazing at the magical feminine apparition, and then three other men who are looking upwards ...perhaps they're looking for their own personal 'Tinkerbell'

Gagging for sex/wanks/orgasms is a lot of men's normal - so it is invisible/unmentionable to them like water to a fish.

Women on the other hand are gullible and believe the 'born in the wrong body' horseshit because overbearing male sexual motivations are so mysterious to us that any other narrative seems more plausible.

A man I know says "men use love to get sex, women use sex to get love". A bit oversimplified but may have a kernel of truth.

As a feminist I preferto think men and women are essentially the same, just with different plumbing. But sex is the area where i really can't believe this is true. So many men seem to have weird fetishes, or be obsessed with sex, or be entitled and think nothing of paying for it, or coercing women to get it, or raping them.

"Over bearing sex drive" is a great description.

I don't know. But anecdotally I have read that transitioning is so all consuming that an actual sex life with the wife ( if she is willing) tails off. And not to do with hormones, specifically.

You read a lot of stories of an escalation in porn and online sexual relationships. I'm guessing they would gravitate towards people who would 100% accommodate the fetish.

You read a lot of stories of an escalation in porn and online sexual relationships

This is something that Abigail Rowland describes in speech above.

Wordthe: I totally endorse your last comment. People have NO idea that autogynaephlia is a hidden doubt which ebbs and then comes back even stronger (sexual analogy intended!), and that AGPs are predatory and exploitative. Certainly my ex-h just wanted free accommodation and the opportunity to obtain a slice of my house by putting in planning applications which I didn't want (which were fortunately rejected by the local planning authority!). I escaped serious financial fraud more by luck than judgement.

twitter.com/BBCWomansHour/status/1082586770464751616

embedded contact link: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007qlvb/contact

current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473261-The-Elephant-in-the-Room-is-male-autogynephilia-by-Sue-Donym

Wordthe- you put that really well. The rabbit/bird analogy is excellent.

I think misogyny is at the heart of it - that men look down on women so they can't imagine anything worse than actually wanting to be one. That's why the Woko Haram are so sympathetic

How do you know the majority are incels?
The woman today said she still had intimacy with her husband before he transitioned.

I think it is a mistake to think incels are physically unattractive to women.

They are part of a misogynist/antifeminist cult of self-pity. They love to wallow in the idea of female shallowness and materialism to offset against their own delusions of meaningful, deep despair.

On the radio show today Michelle said she was the sort of practical woman who goes to pubs on her own, where as her husband was secretly longing to access a woman who is into body hair removal and skirts - a shallow, materialistic feminine stereotype.

Neither Incels or AGPs want normal, practical women. They want offensive porny stereotype women. They choose to be lonely because they prefer the 'idealised' dolly bird in their head than connecting with the actual women they know and have opportunity to have relationships with, in their real life.

R0's link to that thread above, is excellent.

An article that is basically everything you wanted to know about AGP, but were to afraid to ask.

Incredibly informative.

Link again

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3473261-The-Elephant-in-the-Room-is-male-autogynephilia-by-Sue-Donym?watched=1&msgid=83951416#83951416

Datun
there is a survey that would indicate man who transition have smallest possible dating pool
That is a detail needs repeating over and over.

It doesn't matter what age you transition:
The dating pool for trans people is small

An article that is basically everything you wanted to know about AGP, but were to afraid to ask.

Incredibly informative.
direct link to article:
medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

On the radio show today Michelle said she was the sort of practical woman who goes to pubs on her own, where as her husband was secretly longing to access a woman who is into body hair removal and skirts - a shallow, materialistic feminine stereotype.

I'm not on Twitter but occasionally I hold my breath and wander onto it to look around. I genuinely used to feel sorry for trans women and definitely had the impression that they were just very unhappy individuals who would rather accept a loss of status than remain in their male bodies.

And yet if you look at the accounts of trans women and keep clicking through the accounts Twitter recommends, all you seem to see is older men posing in a highly sexualised manner. They're pouting and calling themselves 'girls' and discussing their shoes or lipstick collection and saying how naughty they are for buying new ones. They're talking about flashing lorry drivers by driving around with their skirts pulled up and getting a thrill from it. Then there's all the tales of being oppressed getting thrown in and how someone has been mean to them.

Their idea of being female bears no relation to my lived reality. It is just grossly offensive and narcissistic and it is so obviously all one big sexual fantasy.

And yet if you look at the accounts of trans women and keep clicking through the accounts Twitter recommends, all you seem to see is older men posing in a highly sexualised manner. They're pouting and calling themselves 'girls'

There is a twitter hashtag, #girlslikeus used by many M2F transgender people.

Here is some more of my work which addresses the matters raised in the powerful radio segment this morning, and the discussion above.

Pornography and Autogynephilia in the Narratives of Adult Transgender Males

What Does it Mean to be Juno Roche?

That piece about Juno Roche is excellent, thank you

A very powerful and explicit interview. I felt so much sympathy for Michelle and her children. If you ever read this, Michelle: You all deserved better.

I think Michelle did very well including the sentence "there are so many women talking on the web about this" shortly followed by the mention of the term "transwidow". This would guide any woman listening who is going through something similar to search the internet for "transwidow". That's all she'd need. The results would immediately direct her to support and information even though Michelle gave no web address or recommendations.