Powerful R4Woman's Hour 'transwidow' interview with a woman describing the devastating impact of her husband's transition on her, their marriage and children.

[R0wantrees]

'Michelle's' experience described in an interview today is very moving and powerful.
She describes how the voices of the partners, wives and children of men who transition are silenced.
Its a very eloquent and nuanced discussion & important listening.
'Michelle'

'Yesterday and today we look at the impact of the decision to Transition on marriage and family relationships. Yesterday we heard from Stephanie Jones when she transitioned from male to female and became, as she describes it, a "stranger in her own home". Today we hear from Michele whose ex-husband transitioned after they had been married for 16 years.'
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0001xsf

I hope someone transcribes her words

In the introduction , yesterday's monolgue was".by a woman who transitioned" ...today's was a woman whose husband transitioned. What the hell does the ordinary listener assume I wonder?

This would guide any woman listening who is going through something similar to search the internet for "transwidow". That's all she'd need. The results would immediately direct her to support and information

relevant threads:
OP, TinselAngel wrote:
"This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.
I know there's a few of you out there?"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3101834-trans-widows-escape-committee

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3471122-trans-widows-escape-committee-2-the-trans-widows-strike-back

dressing up your big belly in a bin bag

I had to quote this because it's a perfect description

@Wordthe
Heads up, a couple of your posts on this thread must have been reported as are now deleted.
Are you fully aware of the additional guidelines on FWR?
There's a pinned post.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1080554791066132482.html

I always thought it was sad how Caitlyn Jenner spoke about Kris Jenner and the rest of the Kardashian family after their transition. Caitlyn made out that Kris had always known (which she denies) and claimed that she tried to stop Caitlyn from transitioning(which she also denies). Then, Caitlyn talked about how Caitlyn used to go through their (teenage) daughters' underwear! Apparently they haven't spoken in a few years now... I'm not surprised!

Every middle aged man I've ever met who has transitioned has rewritten their history to put themselves in the role of persecuted victim. Every. Single. One.

Here is the TED talk that Michelle mentions, by another trans widow:

Well worth a watch. Brave woman.

"Michelle's" story was heartbreaking. I felt the rage on her behalf. How dare that self-indulgent, entitled man destroy his family's lives with barely a backward glance. The sheer cowardice of handing her a letter then being elated at the prospect of skirts.
Woman as performance.
Michelle, should you read, I wish happiness and success for you and your daughters
(and a plague of inconvenient ingrown hairs on your ex-husband)

is there another phrase that could be used to make the concept of autogynephilia more accessible and therefore hopefully more widely grasped?

is there another phrase that could be used to make the concept of autogynephilia more accessible and therefore hopefully more widely grasped?

I'm not sure that the primary issue is the word.

In the article by Sue Donym, 'The Elephant In The Room' linked previously she comments:
(extract)
"That name is ‘autogynephilia’.
I can hear you now, ‘auto-whata-philia?’. The word is difficult to get your mouth around. It is also a verboten word. People whisper it in dark alleys level verboten. Like ‘Voldemort’ in Harry Potter. The Elephant That Must Not Be Named. If you say it out loud, someone will arrive at your door and brand the four scarlet letters on your forehead ‘TERF’. I guarantee it. Even I avoided saying the word in my original article, Inauthentic Selves, which had a section on autogynephilia end up on the cutting room floor, because I wanted the broader LGBT community to be able to read about the way that LGBT activism has been austroturfed.

But I bet you’re thinking ‘I’ve never heard of these autoawhataphias’.

Are you a member of the LGBT community? If you are, surely you know a male to female transitioner. They are in their late thirties to their early fifties, they call themselves a ‘lesbian’, and they wear clothing that’s inappropriate for their age. They’re ex-cop, military, or most often, work in something involving computers.

I can see your head nodding behind the screen. Congratulations, you’ve seen autogynephilia.

But what is autogynephilia? What is the elephant? How is it relevant to the LGBT community? And why is no one pointing it out? (continues)

concludes:
This means that LGBT struggles are either ignored and erased or actively hated upon, as ‘exclusionary’ lesbians and gays aren’t interested in bodies of the opposite sex. ‘Queer’ also provided another route for our elephant, autogynephilia.

‘Queer’, and autogynephilia have provided a method for heterosexuals, particularly heterosexual males, to colonize the LGBT community, erase our struggles, and tells us we’re all bigots for not wanting heterosexual sex.

Sounds crazy. But true.

Please Discuss The Elephant
If there’s one thing you ought to do, it’s discuss the elephant. Please discuss the elephant. Don’t leave it rampaging around the room, destroying everything in its path.

Autogynephilia is a weird concept. It can be inaccessible. But it needs to be discussed in the LGBT community, and openly. Not talking about it is causing way too much damage — we have had our organizations taken over, our spaces colonized, and our sexuality redefined. Thanks to these men, you can no longer say ‘I am, gay, meaning exclusively same-sex attracted’ without being labelled a TERF. That’s not a good thing.

Dancing around the subject isn’t helpful. While the ultimate result of autogynephilia is homophobic rhetoric, is important to remember that a sexual fantasy, not homophobia, motivates such rhetoric. That is the root cause of the problem.

Worse is the effect on autogynephiles themselves. ‘Transgender’ is not an umbrella. It is a term that erases the very different motivations and causes of various forms of gender dysphoria. It does people who claim the label absolutely no favors. The original inclusion of the ‘T’ was designed for homosexual transsexuals, and include them with other same-sex attracted individuals. It was not designed to include autogynephiles, who are heterosexual males, or ‘queer’ individuals who are heterosexual but believe dying their hair some variation of neon should mean they are included. Making ‘transgender’ an umbrella not only erases the very different causes and struggles associated with homosexual transsexuality, it also obscures the causes of, and struggles associated with autogynephilia. Autogynephilia is not a condition I would wish on anyone. It is a unique, somewhat bizarre struggle, and reading through many of the accounts of it was quite sad. It can make its sufferers lonely and unable to connect with intimate partners. But enabling it, and on a grand scale, has caused immense damage to homosexuals, particularly lesbians, who have lost almost all their spaces and communities to colonization.

Please discuss the elephant."

Fetish.

In a word.

You could say cross dressing fetish. But that doesn't quite cut the mustard. Because, as I understand it, the joke is what's the difference between cross dressing and autogynephilia, and the answer is about three years. Which indicates they are different, but one is a more extreme version of the other.

Thank you to all the posters today for the links.
I thought I was very peaked tbh and also as a doctor we'll educated in the vagaries of humankind but I had never heard of agp before.
Omg.... It all makes sense now.
Especially princess pippa

Michelle's story was powerful and insightful - thank you Woman's Hour. And also a big thank you to mirandayardley for your insightful piece 'What does it mean to be Juno Roche'. You say things that so many don't dare to comment on - so important to tackle this elephant in the room.

Yes cross dressing is a form of autogynephilia, as is dressing in a 'rubber doll' costume, as is wearing fake breasts inside a bra or having them inserted under your skin if you are a bloke.

Perhaps we need name for the committed, more full-time autogynephilic fetish than occasionally wanking off in front of the mirror wearing your wife's tights now and again.

but I had never heard of agp before.

It's the problem, in my opinion. There are so many. I can't think of a single transactivist who isn't.

And I'm slightly depressed, it has to be said, that you had never heard of it!

Not that a lot of people haven't, it's just that once you start to drill down into transactivism, it's the first thing that hits you.

Actually I don't think 'fetish' needs any more qualification. Whether someone is obsessed with rubber, lace, fur, leather, whatever and can't get off without it - we all know what a fetish is. It is a form of sexual dysfunction.

Autogynephilia is simply a sexual fetish which can become pretty extreme and for some men it takes over their entire lives because no other high comes close enough.
They are sick in the head.
It's a sexual fetish.

perhaps pictures say it better, the similarities between these two
the AGP as the ultimate narcissist?

Excellently illustrated Word.

www.reddit.com/r/itsafetish/

this subreddit collects example after example of male people explicitly linking their trans identity to sexual arousal

thank you Plectrum :o
and very illuminating subreddit Grinitch!

WeRiseUp
Autogynephilia is simply a sexual fetish which can become pretty extreme and for some men it takes over their entire lives because no other high comes close enough. They are sick in the head. It's a sexual fetish.

It's pretty extreme and it really does consume the lives of those it affects and has terrible effects on their families. A significant problem is that we have a culture and a medical profession that does not identify AGP for what it is, and then help the individual deal with this problem, instead it validates that person's identity and faciltaties their 'transition' without ever helping them address their underlying problem, instead indulging the fantasy that they are really a woman, when in fact they are confusing 'feeling sexy' with 'feeling like a woman'.

And this is one of the most significant problems with the status quo, because it isn't addressing that AGP is not a morally neutral position because it's based on sexism and the objectification of women, and unless this is recognised we will not ever address the root cause of this condition, orientation, paraphilia or whatever, which becomes debilidating for the sufferer and devastating for their loved ones and especially their family.

I just listened to it. Wow, that about 80% the same as my story.