Mothers are being abused during childbirth. We need our own #MeToo

[stumbledin]

I dont necessarily agree with the idea that this is the same as #MeToo but definitely at the extreme end of how the entrenched paternalism with health services too often leads to women being ignored and not listend to. And there examples of how many standard procedures are based on the needs of a male body not a female one. (another reason why pretending gender identity is the same as biological sex is not only nonsense but could lead to inappropriate treatment).

interesting that the author is part of Index on Censorship.

Caution: some women may find this difficulat reading www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/28/mothers-abused-childbirth-metoo-movement-women-give-birth

Yep I think the lack of human rights, consent and autonomy in maternity care is shocking :( and there is definitely a horrible attitude of ‘just be thankful you were handed a healthy baby’ when women dare to speak up on anything that happened

I too had anaesthetic wear off during a c section. My experiences of birth and pregnancy have left me feeling violated and (and I know this word is so over used but it’s how I feel) somewhat traumatised.

I have lasting physical damage and I’m having to be dragged to the docs about it because even going to the GP is something I avoid now. I’d rather see the vet.

The way women are treated during birth and pregnancy and for postnatal issues is a fucking disgrace.

I feel so much for you Yarnswift, can't imagine anything more awful. I've read other stories where women in labour have no control over what is basically their own business, they aren't listened to and the medical professionals ignore signs. You hear some horrible stuff about 3rd degree tears, dreadful pain with little pain relief and ignoring the need for a Caesarian until it is dangerous!

I don't understand why such things still happen. I didn't have any problems but know so many who did.

Most medical professionals involved with pregnancy and the delivering of children are women! In years gone by there were male Obs/gynae consultants and doctors but there are far, far more women now and the midwives are usually women. Women GPs do antenatal clinics with the help of a female nurse/midwife. So male domination is no longer the norm.

Why are women not always sympathetic towards other women? It's beyond me.

This is far more important than #metoo. I gave birth to my second child in an NHS hospital. I wanted to go private but our eldest wasn’t even two years old and there are no private hospitals within reasonable driving distance of where we lived. I was frightened of giving birth in the back of our car in motorway rush hour. In hind sight we should have risked it. The staff at the hospital ignored all safeguards, guidance and protocols resulting in birth almost24 hours after my waters broke. I asked them politely to admit me and try a membrane sweep of induce me. They refused. I demanded. They sent me home. Eventually I came back and refused to leave. They left us alone in a room for a few hours and refused to administer pain relief. When my son was eventually born cold and with breathing difficulties the midwife who delivered him refused to believe there was anything wrong with him and said that the machinery must be faulty. It wasn’t. My son had an infection. Obviously. It was almost inevitable that he would have an infection after being in there without amniotic fluid for so long. I had that these midwives and nurses felt that they had a right to make that decision and I hate that the NHS has monopolised healthcare in my area taking away my choice.

On the whole i have been lucky. However after my first c section i was moved to tge ward and told i could only get pan relief at the same time as others getting meds. (fair enough except i was due pain relief 30 mins after ward meds which were done as i arrived on ward).
When, 6h later i rang the buzzer to ask for pain reluef, (i had problems with my right side of wound), i was told no. That was the only contact i had with nursing staff between 8pm and 8am. I couldn't get out of bed due to the pain from problem stitching so couldn't put dd down all night. Also i react to morphine, which i had been given prior to going up to the ward, i got a row from a nurse because i was covered in blood from itching my back.
Luckily baby no 2 was better although i did get a lecture about no point in breast feeding beyond a week and that i had spoiled dd1 by feeding until past 2. This was from my miwife 😂😂😂

When I first read the title, I thought it seemed a bit mad but actually this is completely valid.

I had a scheduled c section and the procedure was fine, but afterwards was horrible. I was generally treated like a complete inconvenience.

I was uncomfortable with the idea of breastfeeding but wanted to try it. The process of them manhandling me (against my will!) to get my DD to feed, with the curtains wide open, grabbing my boob without any warning, was so humiliating that I opted for a bottle instead. Once they found out I was bottle feeding, they were completely awful to me and refused to show me how to feed her because ‘we only help mums who are feeding their babies themselves’ - a phrase that makes my teeth stand on end.

I had many friends that had babies the same time as me and the number of stories that end with ‘they said I wasn’t dilated enough and then the baby was born 5 mins later’ is shocking. I always thought that surely had to be indicative of an issue in the maternity system in general.

For a lot of people giving birth on the NHS is the first time they get to experience hospital care beyond A&E. I’m afraid it’s not much better for the elderly. The things my 90 year old grandmother went through are also shocking. Her condition got worse in Hospital she died. Not surprising when you are thirsty and can’t get a drink, or no one to help you go to the toilet and you have to lay in your own mess for far too long.

The maternity care I had with my first was shocking, thankfully labour was very quick, but have some woman try to stitch me up without proper local anaesthetic was violating. I had gas and air and I kept screaming at her to stop, “to fucking stop! The pain is unbearable! Stop!” I was fully prepared to kick her in the face. Ok It sounds extreme but someone trying to stitch up a tear in a very sensitive area with no pain relief nor permission is causing assault.

I didn’t kick her, they eventually stopped and got some LA. Jesus wept The absolute lack of sympathy and I am sure some get a sadistic kick out of it.

But the problem is not confined to maternity care, there are too many service users, not enough hospital beds or hospital staff. GP services are woefull and if anyone as ever had to try and get their sick infant to see a gp at a walk in clinic will tell you, they often close because they become to busy and you are shunted off elsewhere. All because your gp closes for half days.

I thank god my dh gets private healthcare through work, the nhs is IMO is not first class care, not for most people anyway. It’s basic, no frills, slow and run by overworked and under resourced staff.

I grew up believing the lie that the nhs was the most amazing social creation that was our national pride, that we all defend to the death. But once you’ve experienced the very worst of it you actually don’t think you will miss it when it’s gone. Other countries seem to do well without an nhs I’m not advocating a US healthcare system but I think the model we have is broken. It was great in the 20th century times have changed. Something radical needs to happen now.

Fucket’s last paragraph is spot on.

NHS model is broken and one day a government needs to be brave enough to admit this and drain the swamp. At the moment there’s no choice between the NHS which is a gamble or going private which is out of most people’s reach. The US system is often mooted as the only alternative, but most Western European countries seem to use a middle of the road system which works.

I’m heartened by the willingness to examine the NHS a bit more dispassionately. The US system is dire as a prior administration in a desire to narrow the gap between the rich and the poor decided to try to cap raises. This led employers to start offering health insurance as they couldn’t just offer the cash. Now they have an unholy system whereby if you develop a health condition you now become utterly beholden to a current employer as getting a new job with a pre-existing condition means a new employer won’t touch you.

I think we need a proper national conversation about what we want from the NHS, and what we’d be willing to pay to get it. At the moment the choices are Conservatives who will underfund and lead to massive stresses, or Labour who will borrow and push the debt onto future generations, and probably wreck the economy further leading to similar stresses anyway.

What I think we need to do is put foward the idea of capturing the recommended 10% or so of our GDP recommended in the King report. Committing every future government to raising and spending that amount, so no matter what they might say in manifestos they HAVE to meet that obligation no question. We should push for this as citizens and outside party affiliation so they don’t get to use healthcare as a political football between each other to score points anymore. Make our MPs legislate accordingly. Or we have to face the fact private healthcare will become a reality sooner if not later. Women at least get treated better than they are as customers of a service.

I have been lucky, in particular with the excellent midwives at the homebirth - they listened and I felt empowered to do it

However I was so upset and outraged on behalf of a woman in labour who had to wait for a labour room and who, despite crying, feeling sick on gas and air and stating she had to push, was refused an assessment.

And I am pro the care I’ve received on the NHS as a whole, and grateful too but it really stuck with me - the extent to which she was denied attention

(I probably would have just given birth right there)

I also agree with Fucket. I find it incredibly frustrating that it's difficult to express any criticism of the NHS in many quarters. It is seen as being the NHS model or the US model and that is so unhelpful and simplistic. The NHS just isn't working and I'm not sure it can do in this day and age. My experience was nothing like the awful experiences of many people but I still felt neglected after birth and still find that difficult to deal with. I agree that it isn't limited to maternity care too, MIL had terrible terrible care after a heart operation not too many years ago and this was in a flagship hospital (and she had been a nurse there!!) It just isn't good enough!

My first 2 births in hospital were horrible. So much so that I refused to go in for my 3rd despite being refused a home birth (over 40 and tested + for GBS).
I had Ds at home with one midwife and two paramedics in the other room. It was lovely. The other midwife turned up just in time to see the placenta be delivered, and the paramedics drank tea and ate biscuits then transported me in for stitching and monitoring of Ds.
Then once I was in hospital I was completely ignored for 12 hours once I was stitched up. ds not monitored once. Wasn't even told where to get a cup of tea, and the room was filthy.
Fucking awful.
However DH didn't get much better treatment when in for sepsis. 24 hours in a&e on a trolley, 24 hours in acute care, then 2 weeks left to his own devices on a general ward where I had to complain daily to get him a drip as he couldn't drink and wasn't passing urine - which wasn't being monitored. If I hadn't sat there every day I truly believe he would have died. And that's a fit normally healthy man in his prime.

I have PTSD from childbirth. A mixture of a male midwife who sneered at me repeatedly, and a hugely overstretched service which meant there was no operating theatre available when I needed one.

This resonates with me. After about 40hrs of labour, I begged for an epidural, and the c section that I'd asked for several times. I was nearly two weeks overdue, had had my waters broken for me, and 40hrs in, I still hadn't got to 10cm. The two males doctors were very, very slow to provide the epidural, and wanted to have a long conversation with me first whilst I was screaming in agony.
Once it was administered, they basically patted me on the shoulder and told me "it wouldn't be long now".

Another 5 hrs later I had an augmentation (like the induction drugs). Another 5hrs later I was ready to push, but by that time I was just done for and just couldn't get anywhere.

Thankfully, by then the surgical team had changed, and it was now staffed entirely by women. They whipped me straight into theatre after 52 hours of labour, but it was too late for c section, meaning episiotomy and forceps that have left me with life long damage.
In my birth debrief, the consultant raved about one of the male doctors. "Such a good communicator." apparently. It was clear from reading through my birth notes that baby was large, stuck, and not positioned correctly to descend. I had no chance. The best I got was "we're sorry. In your case, we got it wrong."
I'm never having another child.

I've never experienced any kind of good care in any of my 3 pregnancies/births. My first birth was horrible. I was spoken to like dirt, examined roughly during contractions, had pain relief I didn't want forced on me. No one explained anything to me or asked my consent to anything. I was stitched up without pain relief and despite a traumatic instrumental birth with considerable blood loss, was sent off for a shower alone straight after walking the corridors in nothing but a bed sheet dripping blood everywhere. I was then put into a private postnatal room and left completely alone until the following night, even though I was a first time young mum who was trying to breastfeed.
Second baby I was denied any care for severe pelvic pain that left me housebound. I was left to go very overdue despite the fact they knew baby was very big. I eventually laboured at home, when I felt I needed to go to hospital my DH called and they told him no I had to stay home another hour. I birthed my 10lb meconium covered baby alone in my bathroom 40 mins later.
Third baby, refused early scan despite bleeding. Midwife was awful and missed a lot of antenatal appointments because of her not turning up/running hours late. I was pushed into another home birth I didn't want, labour ward again refused to let me go in. The birth went ok but I had a really bad bleed alone a few hours after. Hospital again didn't want to see me and sent a midwife out who wouldn't even look at the copious amounts of football sized blood clots I'd passed. I was also wrongly prescribed clexane that I didn't need. Postnatal care was non existent in all cases.

There are some terrible stories here
I do think the chronic understaffing of midwives and nurses plays a part in this. Staff who are overworked, frustrated and resentful take it out on those who rely on them. You end up with staff who have nothing left to give and feel hopeless and powerless to change the situation... and it is ultimately the patients who suffer 😞
I am not excusing their callousness or inattention mind but I do think the long term grinding down of the NHS workforce is partially to blame for the horror experienced by some patients.

My experiences were mild compared to others, but they still drove my desire for home birth with my younger DC. I'm not a perfect candidt, but I know that I'm happier calmer and treated better at home. I am a person, too, and not just a baby incubator.

The obstetrics situation in the USA is arguably worse than in the UK and the thought of us following that model of care for labour and delivery makes me shudder. At least we still have midwives driving obstetrics here; I'd hate to change that, even though some midwives are horrible too.

A young male doctor shoved his hand up my vagina, without consent, he had massive grin on his face, even the midwife looked disturbed. I looked at my DH thinking wtf just happened. I felt I was sexually assulted. I shudder thinking about even now, nearly 4 years later.

This is such an important conversation to have. There are too many dreadful experiences that women have in childbirth - and so many of them avoidable. Haven't Mumsnet been having a campaign about prevention of, and better treatment for, post birth injuries?

For a lot of people giving birth on the NHS is the first time they get to experience hospital care beyond A&E

I think so too. Anyone who has had significant dealings with medical staff will have sad stories of feeling violated, dismissed, shamed and belittled. Women just happen to experience this earlier than most men.

I do think some issues like consent and informed choice are particularly bad in obstetric care as opposed to other areas of medicine though. There was an article on it in another newspaper (can’t remember where now) and an obstetrician themselves was calling for change, they commented that obstetrics was one area of medicine where adult patients are treated more like children.

There are issues with the language used and also a lack of transparency about risks and benefits. I had a horrendous forceps delivery which, in hindsight, wasn’t in my best interests personally but would have contributed to better c-section stats for the hospital.

Fuckit said...

"I grew up believing the lie that the nhs was the most amazing social creation that was our national pride, that we all defend to the death. But once you’ve experienced the very worst of it you actually don’t think you will miss it when it’s gone. Other countries seem to do well without an nhs I’m not advocating a US healthcare system but I think the model we have is broken. It was great in the 20th century times have changed. Something radical needs to happen now."

Hey steady on now. It's the envy of the world...

Apparently.

Some of the stories about women not being listened to in labour or given membrane sweeps they didn't consent to are disturbing.