Mothers are being abused during childbirth. We need our own #MeToo

[stumbledin]

I dont necessarily agree with the idea that this is the same as #MeToo but definitely at the extreme end of how the entrenched paternalism with health services too often leads to women being ignored and not listend to. And there examples of how many standard procedures are based on the needs of a male body not a female one. (another reason why pretending gender identity is the same as biological sex is not only nonsense but could lead to inappropriate treatment).

interesting that the author is part of Index on Censorship.

Caution: some women may find this difficulat reading www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/28/mothers-abused-childbirth-metoo-movement-women-give-birth

Another who this resonates with....Another case of stitching with no anaesthetic here, after a complicated birth anyway. The birth itself was absolutely nothing vs the stitching. When I had my 2nd, under a different hospital, they absolutely refused to believe I was in labour and wouldn't let me come in despite me telling them I was....I gave birth in space of about 2 mins at home on our floor before the paramedics could even arrive. I was very lucky, it was fine and actually a far better experience than the 1st in hospital, but I was so scared about the stitching because of my 1st I nearly passed out. Although the paramedic who did it was lovely and gave me gas and air this time :) There are a whole lot of areas for improvement in UK childbirth care.

I got severe PTSD after being violently assaulted during childbirth. They knew I didn't want an instrumental delivery, I wrote that in my birth plan. So after 2 hours of pushing where they didn't give me a single update on my progress, they all came in the room and did it without any discussion, warning or request for my consent. Episiotomy with no warning too.

I never wanted to kill myself but I wished for many many months that I hadn't survived. It would have been easier than reliving my nightmare day in day out.

I have survived and recovered for the most part. It took 17 sessions of EMDR though at NHS expense (and massive disruption to my life, let alone a huge bother for my family, me and my employer arranging childcare and attending appointments, and the first year of my child's life I feel like I wasn't there).

Don't get me started on the complaints process. Gaslighting service basically.

Another anaesthetic failure here - my experience of being pregnant and giving birth have altered how I feel about many things, including feminism and the medical profession.

Yes a lot of what passes for routine in childbirth is sexual assault.

No means no in any context.

I've had quite a lot of hospital stuff as a child and an adult and have to say that the way I was treated during pg / birth was really very different to how I was treated for everything else.

You are seen as "mum" (which I don't mind being called by the way!) rather than a person in your own right. I think subconsciously you are of less importance somehow. This follows on to post birth when all eyes are on the baby's health and very few on "mum".

We need to humanise women during reproductive stuff maybe, but sadly still society / media still see pg / post birth women as to be controlled, probably doing things wrong and need telling off, often making a fuss, there is a lot of talk about "wanting special treatment" and "women give birth every day what's the big deal" and I really think all in all pregnancy and motherhood still bring out a side helping of misogyny which is reflected in the way the NHS treats women at that time.

@NeverTwerkNaked

The sneering male midwife, I’m almost hoping it was the same one I had and there aren’t two of them. When I complained ( verbally) afterwards the female senior midwife told me he was their best midwife and that he’d just got a promotion. It was awful, like he was some god.

I know his name, it’s pretty distinctive, he’s risen to the top.

I didn’t even want a male midwife but I’m white and I lived in a highly Bengali area. The midwife said I’d have him as I wouldn’t mind and the other women wouldn’t be able to. I felt too silly to disagree.

For me it was multiple examinations and sweeps without my consent, which were just laughed off when I raised it to the doctor when I had my first. I was on the floor in so much pain, in the middle of an induction ward but the midwife refused to get down and examine me. Anyway doctor finally examined me and I gave birth in front of many other women and their visitors.

Not knowing any different I let it go but made sure I went to a different hospital for number 2.

There I had examinations etc but was informed every step of the way, asked if I was comfortable before continuing - a completely different experience.

My second experience should be the universal one, it wasn't in any quieter unit so disagree with the staffing point here - it was leadership and department approach to women that was key. I even spoke to the consultant afterwards and compared the two, she said she would never work in the first one as there were too many bad attitudes but the trust wouldn't be behind her sorting it out...

My experience in Germany was completely different to many of these stories. The local hospital has properly equipped birthing rooms (birth pool, waterproof ctg, bouncy ball, double beds..). They also have trainee midwives on hand to do nice things like give you a sponge bath after a c section. Post-natally, you’re expected to stay in and the c-sectioners often have a single room while the rest are no more than 3 to a room. I was listened to and consent obtained for absolutely everything. The system isn’t perfect but I get the impression that it’s a lot better than the nhs.

Over two labours my issues were:

Not being listened to by the midwife when I knew there was a problem with delivery.

Having no pain relief at the fancy new birthing centre.

Midwives repeatedly letting family members in to see me after I had specifically requested not to be disturbed.

Being transferred to a hospital with no pain relief in second stage. The midwife forgot my notes and chatted to the para on the way there. She didn't ask me once how I was feeling.

Not being covered whilst being transferred to the ambulance. I kept apologising to the para for 'being exposed'.

A male Dr. trying to turn my DD with no pain relief (the most excruciating pain I have endured above childbirth).

Not being believed that I had a bedsore from being sat up in the same position for a day. The bed controls had stopped working so I couldn't change the angle or move my body weight around to prevent the sore. I had a week of antibiotics to stop an infection when a fresh nurse on duty took a look at it.

A midwife laughing at me because I was scared to get up from the bed after recovering from a PP haemorrhage.

I could go on and on and on.

First time around I had a year of private therapy. It helped me to come to terms with the experience but I didn't help with intimacy issues I had with my husband afterwards.

Second time around I used the coping techniques gained from therapy but other issues still unresolved.

As others have posted, I felt abused and violated. I will never see the world in the same way.

I had my episiotomy stitched up without any anaesthetic or analgesia - I’d had gas and air during the delivery so I cannot understand why the very senior midwife doing the suturing didn’t suggest using it during that.

”A young male doctor shoved his hand up my vagina, without consent, he had massive grin on his face, even the midwife looked disturbed. I looked at my DH thinking wtf just happened. I felt I was sexually assulted. I shudder thinking about even now, nearly 4 years later.”

@Pornstarlips - I think you are 100% correct in feeling you were sexually assaulted.

When I was a student nurse, a medical student friend told me about a consultant gynaecologist who made a practice of getting his medical students to do internal exams on the unconscious women on his operating table ‘for the practice’. The women were never asked for their consent, nor were they ever informed that this had happened. Oh, and it wouldn’t be one student, it would be several. Multiple assaults authorised by the consultant.

I didn’t get any pain relief after my 1st CS.
I only realised I should have been given some after my 2nd CS.

An agency nurse told me to get out of bed to get a glass of water as she wouldn’t get it for me. I had had a CS less than 24hrs, I had pre-eclampsia, very very high blood pressure and a baby in special care and I was on the maternity ward. Cruel. I wish I had complained. I wanted too. But with a new baby I didn’t get round to it.

My 2 births have caused me so many issues and trauma that I can't even write the details. One midwife told my 3 year old DD that 'mummy might die' when I was in labour with DS.

I am so traumatised I am terrified of health care professionals. I need to see the gp as I think I'm ill but I'm too scared to go.

Oh, so many bad memories, or rather the few memories I have are bad. I had my two babies back in the 1970s, so some 40 years ago. Pregnancy and labour were like being on a conveyor belt. No information given. The hospital had two consultants, both male, one very old-school which was the one I was allocated to, horrible man. Went into labour, went into hospital, got given a shave, an enema, drugs, then subsequently an episiotomy as was routine back then. Doped up to the eyeballs. The woman in the next bed in post-natal was a nurse, so she got the gen of the drugs routinely given: pethidine, morphine, and chloral. The after-care was for ten days but regimented – no picking up baby unless to feed/change nappy.

Second pregnancy was community based but I went overdue and so had to be referred back to a hospital consultant. Supposed to always be the same consultant as before but I put my foot down and got referred to the other consultant. Much better, but still little communication and no consent required.

Much later, once I got the internet, I discovered AIMS, an organisation to improve maternity care. Through them I learned that certainly back in the 1970s, the advice given by the Medical Defence Union* was that once a pregnant women had stepped over the threshold of the hospital she was deemed to have given implicit consent to any and all treatment determined by the physician. Which of course was why no-one at all ever said what they were doing and why.

*The Medical Defence Union provides indemnity insurance to doctors.

I would have hoped that things had changed significantly for the better in the last 40 years, but reading of some women’s experiences, it seems that some of those attitudes still exist. No doubt it would still suit some HCPs if women would just shut the fuck up and submit, rather than have ideas about autonomy.

Did anyone see this today? Similar complaints being taken up by campaign groups in Eastern Europe.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/01/02/did-not-cry-had-sex-shut-balkan-women-share-agonising-metoo/

I used to be a nurse, and I do not u derstand what has gone so badly wrong with the training of midwives that they do not seem capable of seeing when a woman in their care actually needs nursing care.

A CS is major abdominal surgery. When I was working on surgical wards, no patient who had had major surgery would be expected to leap out of bed and not only care for all their own basic needs, but also care for a completely helpless, newborn baby!

Someone who has other medical conditions, or who has had a long, tiring labour or has torn or had an episiotomy and needed stitches, or who has had an epidural needs nursing care.

In my day (when I were a lass, and Flo Nightingale was walking the wards - or, in other words, the 1980s) midwives had to do the full 3 year general nurse training, and then 18 months specialist midwifery training on top, to qualify as a midwife - so they all spent time working on general medical and surgical wards, and knew about how to nurse medical and surgical patients.

Back then, every surgical patient was monitored post-op - once back from Recovery, they were put on regular observations of pulse, respiration and blood pressure - every 10 or 15 minutes at first (depending on how serious the op was) with the obs becoming less frequent as they went back to normal. Every patient, once they were awake, was given a post-op wash and put back into their own nightclothes. We made sure they started to drink as soon as they were allowed to, watched for nausea, and offered food when they were keeping tea/coffee down.

As far as I am concerned, this is the most basic post op care, and every woman should get this, following a CS, especially if it is done under a general anaesthetic.

Then there is wound care - that is basic nursing care, and it makes zero difference if the wound was a tear or episiotomy or was incurred in any other way - it still needs to be kept clean and monitored for any signs of infection. The fact that the patient also happens to be a new mother doesn’t make this unnecessary.

Basic nursing care - assessing physical and emotional needs of your patients, and providing the care that is necessary in a way that preserves their dignity and meets their needs.

The after-care for women who have had epidurals or c-sections seems particularly brutal. Yes, it’s a good idea to mobilise asap after a vaginal delivery, but how can it be that HCPs who have gone through whatever level of training and have experience of working on a post-natal ward not understand that epidurals take some variable time to wear off, and in the meantime women are at risk of falls, and that c-sections involves major surgery.

My understanding is that people who have hip or knee replacements do get encouraged to mobilise asap but with assistance, certainly in walking, by physios, often two of them. (I used to work in a hospital and it was quite common to see two physios helping an orthopaedic patient practise going up and down the stairs.) Orthopaedic patients need to adjust their gait, because that’s been altered through coping with the pain of bad joints.

Post-partum women have to adjust their stance and gait because they’ve spent months accommodating for the weight and position of pregnancy. Women who’ve had c-sections also have to deal with a significant abdominal wound.

I’m still upset about how I was treated some 40 years ago, but I’m bloody fuming that these days, women are still routinely ignored and dismissed.

Sorry for posting again, but I really needed to rant. I’m getting on for 70 years old now, and those two moments in my life should have been the most wonderful, but they weren’t.

And it’s still happening.

I got ridiculed for having pubic hair (i had a big bump as baby was 10lb 4oz when born. Couldn't see down there if i tried!)

Had to crawl along corridor to labour suit after being sold I was havering that I could feel baby between my legs.... I could... the minute I got on to the bed she slid right out.

Also. When I went for my 12 week scan I was told that " Eh...there's nothing there now.... no ehm heartbeat...". When I asked what happened next I was given my coat and sent off without so much as a leaflet.

My friend whose child was still born... was left in a ward full of jubilant New mothers.

Every time I go to the GP I am asked if I am stressed/anxious/depressed/everything ok at home??? NO I AM FUCKING CONSTIPATED!!!

Woman are nothing but stupid, neurotic, empty vessels as far as western medicine is concerned.

Oh and I was also told my stubble was coming in nicely by my gynae consultant after I had been shaved for a laparoscopy. I was 19 and utterly mortified.

When I started this thread I wasn't sure or even thinking that women might want to share personal experiences as this is a public forum, but these personal testomonies surely indicate that something somewhere has gone wrong. (Although I dont believe that NHS services for pregnant women were ever as rose tinted as Call the Midwife!).

So without dismissing any of those, I was wondering is it because medicine, like so much else is based on what was (and still is) a male led profession? Is this what informs the attitudes towards women because when giving birth women are maybe more than at any other time defined by biology? ie some nasty sadistic male contempt for female bodily functions ( as opposed to idealised female bodies) kicks in / has become institutionalised?

I know women who using the NHS for other conditions, not particularly female conditions, have been patronised, ignored, written up as hypochondriacs. These seems to be particularly true of male consultants who seem to act and behave as though they are living in the Victorian era.

Another factor, which I have experienced, is that many junior male doctors are basically not mature enough as individuals to interact with other people, let alone women on what can be quite personal issues. (A friend who over the years has through no fault of her own had to attend A&E said the best move in her area was when they took junior doctors of the admitting process in A&E and instead had a senior nurse, usually an older women who not only had the medical experience, but the life experience to interact and assess.)

There was a comment earlier on about how Labour had put more money into the NHS and things had improved. I hope on some level this is true, because a lot of this money was through PPI so we now have NHS trusts ( like schools) have to service debt repayments which are as negative as Third World countries being crippled by loan repayments to first world countries.

The other thing that many people seem to agree on (and again I think this was Labour) is that saying that nursing training should follow on from a University education has led to many nurses who may be well "educated" as health profesionals but dont have an instinct or even liking for nursing. I too have seen the most horrendous scenes in geriatic wards were the callous treatment of older women is like some form of torture. If nurses are to be health "professionals" then hospitals need nursing assistants who are able to care and not see it as demeaning to their status.

Just in case anyone thinks I am marking out the NHS as being something particularly bad, very similar changes in work practices have aslo made a mockery of what used to be called voluntary sector groups, but are now known as Third Sector Groups, and just as dangerously in the housing sector. All of this was labour led and no one seems to want to talk about it, or think how we can get back to creating and managing employment where people can be committed to their job, managed properly - and paid well!

Not forgetting the catasrophic impact on care, which is now contracted out to totally unsuitable private companies leeching money from local councils.

How can women act together to make change happen, or to begin with, even by listened to. I had forgotton about AIMs. Should we be doing more to promote the work of groups like this. (Similarly I saw somethere that there is now a Feminist Teachers Network?)

Yarnswift I had my spinal wear off too during a c section. I then spent the next pregnancy with undiagnosed PTSD only discovered when I had a meltdown and refused to sign the consent form for my next c section. They gave me an epidural & a spinal to ensure it didn’t happen again.

After 5 children I have a few tales to tell. Thanks to austerity/cutbacks I have seen a real deterioration in maternity care between 2004 and 2015 when I had my children.

Reading all this, my experiences are relatively good although by no means perfect...DS1 born in birth centre. Pushing for 4 hours with no intervention so when he finally arrived my undercarriage was in a shocking state (I couldn’t walk for 5 weeks, got an infection...). I was left alone in a room with a baby with no clue how to care for him and no help or guidance offered. He wouldn’t feed yet I was discharged 5 hours after giving birth. My baby had actually been born with a serious health condition but this was repeatedly missed (for 12 weeks in fact) and me repeatedly dismissed when seeking medical help on the basis that he was my first baby and all first time mothers are paranoid.
DS3 was born at home on the premise that more care seemed to be offered at home than available at the local birth centre and a transfer to a labour ward if required would be more readily available (odd but true!). In established labour after a series of brutal sweeps, the midwife arrived and informed me she’d forgotten the gas and air but it was OK because i’d birthed twice before without (!!!). Despite me telling her about the constant and intense pain even between contractions, I was told again and again with much authority that my contractions weren’t long enough or painful enough for the baby to be arriving imminently. When she said she was heading back to the hospital to do some paperwork and for me to call if things got worse DH and I were flabbergasted and disheartened. I was in so much pain i’d have consented to a csection on the bathroom floor with no anaesthetic I was so desperate. As she pulled off the drive my waters broke and DH had to call her like a mad man hoping she would stop the car and pick up. She did thankfully and headed back straightaway. DS3 was born shortly after she arrived to her cries of “oh my god he’s enormous” as he was crowning. When she saw the size of him she conceded that maybe I had been in more pain than she had thought.
DD2’s arrival was by far the best - delivered at home by my husband with emergency services guidance on the phone. Read into that what you will.
But 3 tough labours and 3 big babies later my lady garden isn’t quite what it was and I have been left with a prolapse. The GP told me there’s nothing they can do, just go home and give the pelvic floors a squeeze. A friend who happens to be healthcare professional who trained and who has practiced predominantly in mainland Europe tells me she doesn’t understand the UK system. She said other countries “put their women back together” post partum. I am told this involves a little painless internal work to check and address any muscles damaged in the birthing process and a few sessions of physio to get everything back in working order. The result being fewer UTIs and incontinence issues and better prolapse management. She said the NHS says they have no money to do it, but the issues created by not doing so lead to more serious problems which affect a woman’s day to day quality of life and require much more unpleasant and resource thirsty treatment further down the line.
I never really bought into the idea that women are treated more poorly by the NHS until experiencing pregnancy and childbirth myself. Looking back now I feel very much like a pregnant woman, particularly one in labour or a woman who has recently given birth is viewed as a bit “unnecessary” and simply a robot vehicle for bringing new life into the world rather than an actual person and is treated as such.
The lack of post partum care is a whole different story and sadly I think an epedemic which spreads far beyond maternity services. Certainly in recent years my experience of geriatric care (as an on looker) in hospital and in the community is appalling. My husband has long said that he thinks the NHS/Govt are doing their best to ensure needy old people die as quickly as possible in their own homes rather than live longer, happier lives being cared for at a cost to the state. I’m sadly starting to agree with him.
Whichever political party you support, anyone with a modicum of common sense and any real recent first hand experience of our healthcare system must concede that the NHS is no longer fit for purpose. The quicker people stop banging on about it being free, the envy of the word and insisting that we should all put up and shut up, the quicker we can start opening up to sensible debate about taking responsibility for ourselves and perhaps prioritising paying for healthcare as a mandatory living expense, much like utilities, over luxuries like cable TV, a new car or a boozy night out.

This didn't happen during childbirth but was in a women's medicine setting. I was getting a mirena coil put in and had my legs up and the Dr with no warning came over and shoved his fingers into my vagina to do a pelvic exam. He then did the coil insertion and told me nothing about what he was doing. It was extremely painful. I found out years later that he'd dilated my cervix without saying that was what he was going to do or asking me if that was OK. I felt very violated and have struggled with gynae medical appointments since then.

I wish I'd complained but at the time didn't realise it was wrong and now it's probably too late.

I’d love to hear a physician’s perspective on this, but are there not many here? Would be nice to know why these are such common experiences

I'm a midwife and this thread makes for really chilling reading. It's true that staffing has a big impact on the care we're able to give - some days I spend 14 hours working flat out on the postnatal ward without getting time to eat, drink, or pee, but no matter how hard I work I just can't give the care to the (sometimes 10-15) women in my care (plus babies) that they deserve. Sometimes, too, it's about emergency situations where - rightly or wrongly - a decision is made to save the life of a woman or baby, and every second counts so we don't use the time to explain things or get proper consent. Particularly with regard to instrumental deliveries, I think there needs to be more discussion antenatally about this so that women don't end up feeling like they have no idea what's going on in the labour room. The antenatal midwives don't want to scare women by telling them how stressful labour is for a baby and how common it is for their heart rates to become irregular and for them to need to be born very, very quickly - but the alternative is glossing over it so that if that situation does arise the woman is completely unprepared and traumatised.
BUT all of that aside, there is just no excuse for being spoken to rudely, ridiculed for not knowing something, having your pain / gut feelings dismissed, being needlessly exposed to an unwarranted number of medical staff, or not being given pain relief. (And probably a raft of other unacceptable things I can't think of just now.) None of that can be blamed on poor staffing or the time pressures of an emergency situation. I'm so sorry for what some of you have gone through.