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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

******TRIGGER WARNING Powerful message from a midwife (re. the murder of Natalie Connolly) TRIGGER WARNING ******

231 replies

WTFIsAGleepglorp · 20/12/2018 20:34

Relax, it's not a trans thread.

It's about the horrific murder of Natalie Connolly.

twitter.com/ThatMidwife/status/1075808892477693952?s=19

Who's writing to the Attorney General?

OP posts:
TheCrowFromBelow · 20/12/2018 22:15

Jesus that is horrific. Poor woman.
His sentence is a fucking joke.
I’ll write.

ToeToToe · 20/12/2018 22:19

ps. I'll write too. Writing to the Attorney General was successful in John Worboy's case I believe?

This sentence is too low. My friend's rapist was found guilty in court - the prosecution appealed his low sentence and it was increased to 10yrs. These things can be challenged.

Dottierichardson · 20/12/2018 22:28

OP thank you for raising this and Arranbubonic thank you for the extra guidelines/info. I've sent an email and also forwarded it to my MP asking that they add their voice to Harman's. It's an appalling case, a ludicrous sentence and it sets a dangerous precedent where violence against women is concerned.

KonaMum · 20/12/2018 22:35

This has made me furious beyond words.

everygalaxy · 20/12/2018 22:44

I read about this recently and how he was released on remand before sentencing. It is fairly local to us so there was a large article in our very well known regional newspaper. The report was salacious and very degrading - does anyone remember if there is a specific way to complain about how violence towards women is reported?

arranbubonicplague · 20/12/2018 22:51

The report was salacious and very degrading

In the US, that's acknowledged as part of a strategy that is implemented by reputation management companies so that when negligible sentences are passed the public mind is primed to accept, "She was asking for it" or "She shares the responsibility for what happened".

workshyfop · 20/12/2018 23:02

I can’t bear to read the details but I have emailed the AG and asked for a review. For that poor woman and her daughter and all of us women and girls.

arranbubonicplague · 20/12/2018 23:17

Prof. Catharine McKinnon: Rape Redefined:

(Scroll right down to see the piece) McKinnon has a useful perspective on the issue of consent and why it is out of step with rape and assault laws.

6. Consent definitions – in which the prosecution has to prove nonconsent – require a woman be believed concerning a sexual fact that is by its nature subjective. This is why it puts the victim on trial. Essentially, it attributes victimization to the victimized. It makes the case be about what she was thinking, or what he thought she was thinking, rather than about what he did. It makes rape occur in someone’s mind, not by his body on her body.

7. It is therefore no surprise that, in legal application, consent has been found when women are married, drunk or drugged, repeatedly said no, were asleep, comatose, just seen to be raped by several other men, threatened with deportation or false criminal charges or loss of her job. In legal operation, consent to sex is routinely found in situations of despairing acquiescence, frozen fright, terror, absence of realistic options, socially situated vulnerability, and even death. Prostituted sex is regarded as consensual because it is paid. All this is what consent actually means legally, not mistakes in what it legally means.

The often accompanying standard of mistaken belief in consent means that if the accused is found to have believed she consented, whether she did or not, it is not rape. In societies saturated with pornography, a lead pipe over the head can sincerely be believed to produce consent to sex. Further no surprise that “rough sex” is such an increasingly effective consent defense.

In other words, consent is often found in situations where considerable force was used, building into law the misogynistic assumption that women want to be forced into sex. This is the real meaning of requiring a showing of both force and nonconsent, as prevails in US state laws. The same assumptions tend to be attributed to a gay man when he claims another man raped him. He is feminized, reduced on a gendered basis.

If sex occurred, her consent is essentially presumed on the most minimal of acquaintance between the parties; the survivor has to disprove it. Socially speaking, if sex happened, or if a woman had ever had sex before, especially with the accused, consent is effectively assumed. She has to disprove it. It’s a social burden of proof women enter the law burdened by. Consent in law is consistent with economic, psychological, and hierarchical threats, so long as physical injury or life are not threatened (for which purpose rape itself is generally not considered a physical injury).
...
8. Consent as a concept was never designed to apply between two people in civil society. It was given its current meaning in Western liberal philosophy, hence Western law, as the basis for legitimizing the obligation to obey the laws of the state. Even as a fiction.. it never envisioned equal parties. It exists to rationalize the exercise of dominant power (ie the state) over its subordinates (the governed). This is what it is for. Applied to sex, he is the government, she is the governed. Its purpose is to attribute and justify the requisite obedience of the powerless to the rule of the powerful. It is about compliance.

madamegandhi.blog/2014/10/28/sex-equality-with-professor-catharine-mackinnon/

Formal version of the Malmo address complete with references:

harvardlpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/10.2_6_MacKinnon.pdf

BingBongSong · 20/12/2018 23:40

I have emailed the Attorney General, copied my MP and shared on social media. Thank you for the help you've all given in this thread.

AgathaMystery · 20/12/2018 23:55

Can we get this moved to Chat or AIBU? It needs more traffic.

arranbubonicplague · 20/12/2018 23:58

There is a thread in AIBU but neither it (nor, tbh this thread) have titles that indicate it's about Natalie Connolly:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3448773-To-be-incensed-by-this-WARNING-UPSETTING-CONTENT

R0wantrees · 21/12/2018 00:35

@WTFIsAGleepglorp Might you ask MN to allow the title of the thread to be edited to include Natalie connolly's name please?

They have done this before.

If you want to ask, you just report the OP and ask there.

TigerReindeer · 21/12/2018 00:59

Email sent to the AG and my MP.
Absolutely horrific case.

WTFIsAGleepglorp · 21/12/2018 01:34

Might you ask MN to allow the title of the thread to be edited to include Natalie connolly's name please?

Done.

OP posts:
ToeToToe · 21/12/2018 01:39

Thanks OP. Her name is important. His name is everywhere - his is the only version we will ever hear now. She has no voice. As always. It feels like men can kill us, make up any story they like ("she liked it rough") and get away with a v light sentence.

Italiangreyhound · 21/12/2018 03:09

I've just read that last year there were calls for animal cruelty to (rightly) attract at least a five year sentence. This man has killed a woman and his sentence is less than four years!

www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/30/animal-cruelty-could-result-in-five-year-jail-sentence-under-new-law

MarilynSlumroe · 21/12/2018 04:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Stopfightingyourbrother · 21/12/2018 05:16

I have emailed, poor Natalie

RustyParker · 21/12/2018 05:52

I too have just emailed the AG.

papersmile · 21/12/2018 06:27

I'm emailing today.

papersmile · 21/12/2018 07:03

Horrible case. I was confused as to why the court took previous bruising as evidence of consent rather than continued abuse

everygalaxy · 21/12/2018 07:22

Staffordshire police have released a statement from Natalie’s family - very sad to read but important that their voices are heard. I cannot imagine what she went through or how her poor family coped with the trial evidence.

m.facebook.com/staffordshirepolice/photos/a.10150149873998378/10158129913268378/?type=3&_rdr

TooTrueToBeGood · 21/12/2018 07:27

The report was salacious and very degrading - does anyone remember if there is a specific way to complain about how violence towards women is reported?

@everygalaxy, Level Up have an ongoing campaign to change the way the media reports on cases involving violence against women. Details here: act.welevelup.org/campaigns/54. You could send them the article and they may be able to use it to add weight to their argument. Can I encourage everyone to read about their campaign and consider giving your support by adding your name to their petition?

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 21/12/2018 07:36

Thank you for this thread OP, I'll email today

everygalaxy · 21/12/2018 08:09

Thank you TooTrue that is the campaign I couldn’t remember

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