A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

Exclusive: The woman was told that "no men are allowed" in the women's changing room after gym staff received a complaint from another member.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/puregym-trans-woman-changing-room

How long until the backlash forces a change in policy do you think?

A man is a man is a man. And all of them stay out of single sex provision. Nice men who wouldn’t hurt a fly, average men, nasty men, rapist men, big men, small men, men who have erectile dysfunction, men who have intact penises, men who have lost them to surgery, or illness or injury. They are all men. They all stay out.

This.

britney
What does woke mean?

It's what we used to call 'right on' or progressive. It's a term appropriated by certain progressive people, usually in academic circles (and usually in the humanities), from US African American social justice struggles, where campaigners urged each other to 'stay woke' to the issues. I am suspicious of any white British person who uses the term to describe themselves.

I still don't get why this sort of utter shit isn't classed as indecent exposure.
Bonkers

The Keele University lecturer openly stating women are to be ‘challenged’ if daring to question males in female spaces 😲 Wonder how he defines challenge? I think his comment could incite hate crime against women so I do hope someone from West Yorkshire Police will pop over and see him.
Are the university going to be advertising this during open days? Will female students be made aware of the blatant disregard that a lecturer has for their safety, for their peace of mind?
If nothing else the trans cult helps people to show the rest of us their true colours.

A man is a man is a man. And all of them stay out of single sex provision. Nice men who wouldn’t hurt a fly, average men, nasty men, rapist men, big men, small men, men who have erectile dysfunction, men who have intact penises, men who have lost them to surgery, or illness or injury. They are all men. They all stay out.

This. Ergh... I've hit one of those phases where I'm so pissed off and angry at how women's right to privacy and dignity is being ignored that I just want to scream and smash things

BeUpStanding
Your honesty will end up screenshotted on Twitter as "evidence of TERF violence", you know that, right?

I think having individual cubicles and just calling them gender neutral accessible cubicles would help. Then no-one is using a "disabled" space and people who are trans have somewhere private to change, also people who might prefer privacy because they have a colostomy bag but don't consider themselves disabled

Yes! An extra space. Not the disabled, an extra one. Make it big enough to accommodate family changing, or mum/son for example at that tricky age where they’re still little but a bit too big to use the women’s. Or a carer, or a buggy, or the hundred other ‘I need a bit more space and privacy’ options.

Extra spaces would be welcomed by many.

Of course, that provides validation for no one ...

I don't think extra space is a solution here actually. Unless you mean only one single unisex space. If there is men's, women's and 'other', where do you think male-presenting possibly woman-feeling people will want to go?

male-presenting possibly woman-feeling

jeez louise.

feeling are immaterial when it comes to single sex provision.

if they were born with a penis they go in the gents or to a third space
if they were born with a vagina they got to the ladies or to a third space

thus respecting the feeling of other service users

A third space would most likely have to be single, wholly enclosed cubicles like a disabled provision but without it needing to be wheelchair accesssible. That would be the only way to assure privacy and dignity and safety for everyone regardless of the various ID entities and stages of transition.

However it's not about that, it's about the need to compel women to stand and pretend that a male is female despite knowing damn well they aren't, and go along with it, plus provide validating wallpaper. And in the case for some under the stonewall umbrella, the whole sexual kick desired. So third spaces are an outrage.

It’s not just changing rooms - think where else women need to be delegate from men. Health clinics, rape centres, refuges...

There needs to be one rule, no wishy washy ‘ifs and buts’.

where do you think male-presenting possibly woman-feeling people will want to go?

What they want? Why does what they WANT matter? What they want doesn’t override what women need (safety.)

Men go in the men’s. Women go in the women’s. Third space for family/unisex etc changing

See this is where the whole thing falls down for me. I'd rather have a private space, all things being equal. So if I as offered a private space, I would use it. But Sarah wants access to a room of naked women.

It's very telling.

It is indeed. I also would much prefer a private space. So would most people.

A man is a man is a man. And all of them stay out of single sex provision. Nice men who wouldn’t hurt a fly, average men, nasty men, rapist men, big men, small men, men who have erectile dysfunction, men who have intact penises, men who have lost them to surgery, or illness or injury. They are all men. They all stay out.

Yep. I really don't care why some men want access to women's spaces. None of them belong there.

What does woke mean?

Stupid and thoughtless but sanctimonious, generally.

No need to bite my head off - I agree that I do not want to see a man in a singe-sex changing room.
If the person in quesiton here, one with a penis, would have gone to men's or used the accessible facility, we would not have a problem in the first place, would we? I'm just saying that if that person won't use accessible facility, they won't use the 'third' either, as they believe they are a woman and have the full right to use women's changing rooms. Anybody objecting needs to be educated, as we have read.

What does woke mean

You’ve seen ‘the young ones’?

Yep. I really don't care why some men want access to women's spaces. None of them belong there.

This, exactly. Their particular motivations for ignoring and violating women's boundaries are largely irrelevant. Obviously some males are more objectively a threat but that's kind of a Schrodinger's Rapist situation. How would we be expected to tell the difference?

I'm just saying that if that person won't use accessible facility, they won't use the 'third' either,

They would if they were required to.

If you're not familiar with the concept of social license it's worth checking out. That's what "inclusive" policies do, provide males with the social license required to feel that if they go into places where women don't want them they'll be supported.

Exactly. All these spaces work on a social contract. Men don't access them due to this social contract.

Basically have to start re-enforcing/policing that social contract, by recognising and voicing the dangers we face when men choose to break with convention to invade our private spaces.

But how can that be done, in practice? Cases like the one that started this thread seem, as far as one can tell, to be based on foolish behaviour by selfish individuals. In the wider picture, though, is there an easy answer to these two problems? .

Firstly, in practice we are talking about (superficial?) appearance. The " if it looks like a duck,. etc". But some people, even if still fully male bodied, are by virtue of build and care taken to merge in not at all easy to spot.

Which means that if there is "calling out " to be done … some genetic female who happens to be a little bigger / less stereotypical in build will get a horrible experience. Not good for the self esteem, that sort of thing.

Cubicles, in future, may become necessary everywhere, maybe? . This would take years, cost a lot, and would not remove the basic issue, just move it to one side a bit.

If we could find a way to tell all "trans" m to fs to get out of the changing rooms unless they have had surgery, and even then be ultra cautious and look for a cubicle, we would.

In the wider picture, though, is there an easy answer to these two problems?

Yes. The men go in the men’s and the women go in the women’s.

How do you think it works now, Kay? It's not as if there's been a policy document circulated to all women and girls saying 'Watch out for possible males in here!'

It would get rid of the blatant willy-wagglers for starters. Plus, it's essential not to threaten to prosecute women for being able to recognise men, ffs.