A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

Exclusive: The woman was told that "no men are allowed" in the women's changing room after gym staff received a complaint from another member.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/puregym-trans-woman-changing-room

How long until the backlash forces a change in policy do you think?

Their particular motivations for ignoring and violating women's boundaries are largely irrelevant. Obviously some males are more objectively a threat but that's kind of a Schrodinger's Rapist situation. How would we be expected to tell the difference?

Yes, precisely.

The only adequate protection for women is sex segregation. We can't check genitals on the door. Male people retain attitudes and behaviour patterns regardless of identification and medical pathways. Many women have trauma triggers.

As to other accommodations: not my problem.

By the time women can see male genitals (or indeed whether they have been removed) in a changing room situation, it's too late and the damage has already been done. The solution is no male people in those spaces.

It’s not just changing rooms - think where else women need to be delegate from men. Health clinics, rape centres, refuges...

There needs to be one rule, no wishy washy ‘ifs and buts’.

Indeed. Clarity is our best ally. Without it, with blurry edges, boundaries will always be pushed at and pushed at and pushed at.

Sex segregation. Full stop.

The answer is no. It’s not the start of a negotiation.

In the very few places, spaces and services we segregate by sex, it is important. It needs to remain.

Here’s a start:
A unisex third space carved out of existing men’s spaces if necessary.
Enforce the existing social norms of no males in female spaces (yes I know some TS have been accessing regardless and not had many issues).TS with surgery need to lead the way on this and ask for unisex changing rooms.
Stop the brainwashing of the next generation who are being asked to believe sex can be changed and that no males are a threat to females.
Any schools using Mermaids material need to balance this with Transgender Trend. Parents have s voice and need to use it.

So we're not allowed to suggest that if one wants to understand another where another commenter is coming from it might help to read their comments on other threads too any more? That's pretty odd. What would the reason for that be?

Open plan changing rooms need to be single sex, not almost single sex. Because there's no getting around the fact that 'almost single' sex is mixed.

As part of the much needed discussion around self id, we have to have a clear understanding what words mean. When an organisation provides 'womens changing rooms' we need to know what that means. I might interprete that as female born, others may see it as 'anyone who is gender fluid and sees themselves as a women that day'.

Stop the brainwashing of the next generation who are being asked to believe sex can be changed and that no males are a threat to females.

Absolutely but at times there is a tendency to teach that all males are a threat to females.

"Almost single sex" is a bit like someone saying "there are almost no crocodiles in that river". Would you take a swim after hearing that?

My 17 year old autistic dd is a member of Pure Gym. She has only just moved from another gym as the facilities are better but she originally wasn't comfortable with a mixed gym and wanted female only as she felt intimidated. She's Ok with that now but absolutely would not feel comfortable with a male bodied person in the changing area.

Who can I write to/email to support the policy?

Absolutely but at times there is a tendency to teach that all males are a threat to females.

Women have to treat all men as a potential threat, we can't tell by looking which ones are and which ones aren't. Therefore we need to maintain sex segregated spaces.

For those who don't understand why women are wary of men, enjoy.

kateharding.net/2009/10/08/guest-blogger-starling-schrodinger%E2%80%99s-rapist-or-a-guy%E2%80%99s-guide-to-approaching-strange-women-without-being-maced/

there is a tendency to teach that all males are a threat to females.

I'm honestly past caring about this, or about manly feelings getting hurt, or about whether or not its sufficiently nice or justified or politely asked enough for women to be listened to.

I don't want to undress in front of any man no matter how lovely he is unless he's a sexual partner. And since I'm lesbian, that won't be happening anyway. Expecting women to come up with a sufficiently nicely put, gently put, absolutely cast iron reason as to why they don't have to pretend they are comfortable getting naked in front of men if the man identifies as a different gender is just perpetuating the whole problem.

Which is that women matter less than men, are subservient to men, and women have no business saying no when it displeases a man. If you believe that, you have a problem.

What is the Keele Uni lecturer link? (We live nearby)

From a transsexual perspective that is really not acceptable behaviour.

This appears to be a self identified person with absolutely no consideration whatsoever with the people around them. There is a big difference between using a private cubicle in a female changing facility and choosing to be in an open plan area.

As someone with GD whilst I do identify as the opposite gender, the idea of being in an open plan area is bizarre.
Firstly I would not want anyone to see my body - I find it disgusting and can't even look at it myself let along be in a situation where someone else may see it (and thats even with the fact Im HRT transitioned).

Secondly it is bloody creepy! I know there are strong opinions on the subject and I don't want to resume the usual arguments but suffice to say that even if you beleive that trans people should be in womens spaces, there needs to be a recognition that you must be using private areas and not be around people in a vulnerable position.

The behaviour exhibited here seems more of voyeurism and fetishism than transgender.

Refusing to accept a woman's "no", or the collective "no" of women as a group, is not very nice...

Absolutely but at times there is a tendency to teach that all males are a threat to females.

So let's get rid of all single sex spaces then. Or have actual risk assessment on the male people who want to undress with female people, and let women know what the risk assessment actually entails.

Absolutely but at times there is a tendency to teach that all males are a threat to females.

Really? I don't see that. In fact I see the opposite - often the male perpetrators of violence against women (and they almost always are male) are written out of the headlines and absent from the analysis. Why do we read "Woman was raped" and "she was walking alone at night, had she been drinking?" as opposed to "man raped woman" and "he was educated and seemed mentally capable, why did he think it was OK to use his penis as a weapon to penetrate without consent?"

As for the "not all men"..... Well yes we know that! But I'd put £ on it being more men than you think (I am personally responsible for not reporting five men to the police. Those five men probably consider themselves "good guys".)

And as the excellent Schrodinger's Rapist explained; we have no way of telling one sort of male from another.

I can't muster more than an eyeroll for the "nasty women who don't trust men" stuff. It's just too clueless to be worth bothering with.

Kay, sadly the possibility of an answer where no one's feelings got hurt and everyone got listened to when women's right to say no got stomped under foot by a lot of entitled people with penises.

Women did not start this. It is not up to women to accommodate it. Women compromising in an attempt to be kind was what led to this massive roll back on respect for women's rights, boundaries and autonomy in the first place.

The behaviour exhibited here seems more of voyeurism and fetishism than transgender.

Well, yes...

Knicknackpaddyflak I am not disagreeing with what you are saying.

What it comes down to though is gender stereotyping. Society makes rules that says what is apparently acceptable for male and what is acceptable for female. From school age it is taught that boys play football, girls play netball; girls have long hair, boys have short hair; girls wear make up and jewellery and boys dont. It is these stereotypes that are being used to define transgender.

It is also a stereotype to say that men are abusive and dominating and women are oppressed, meek and submissive. Of course we sadly live in a male dominated society and fortunately great progress is being made but we have to loose these stereotypes.

Of course statistically men are much more likely to be violent, abusive, voyeuristic, fetishistic and a lot of other things but that doesnt mean you never find women with these characteristics and it doesnt mean all mean are either.

Our solution moving forward is to get rid of stereotypes. Taking out GD/GID as a medical condition you are trans when you go against what is deemed appropriate for your gender (that also being your birth sex) - but if there were no societal definitions segregating what is and is not appropriate by sex then how could you be trans ?

What is the Keele Uni lecturer link? If you do a search on Alex Sharpe you should find enough to keep you from doing anything for the rest of the afternoon .