A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

Exclusive: The woman was told that "no men are allowed" in the women's changing room after gym staff received a complaint from another member.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/puregym-trans-woman-changing-room

How long until the backlash forces a change in policy do you think?

I do sympathise with genuinely dysphoric people but I think having any loopholes now would be exploited so going back to 2004 wouldn’t solve anything.

The loopholes already are there and are being exploited. A number of posts on here talk about "we can't let...".....too late! Women and TS people do have common cause over this the problem now arises when women are now turning round to genuine TS people and saying "sod UK law, you can *&^% off and all".

The biggest loophole by far though is a combination of three things...
Firstly the EA does specifically refer to TS people who seek transition. However it grant's the protected characteristic even before any transition has commenced. I strongly disagree and my personal view is that it should only apply once the first stage of transition begins ie hormonal therapy.
Secondly the ability to change gender markers on some things is far too easy. My driving license was changed with no need for any supporting medical evidence. My passport fortunately did require doctors letters from gender specialists.
Thirdly noone is allowed to ask a TG person to prove their identity. That is ridiculous. People are asked for it all the time. My passport would at least tell you I was diagnosed and medicalised but you aren't allowed to ask me to produce it!

And because of the antics of TRAs my views over the past couple of years have hardened considerably.

Yes. That is my view, as well.

I'd be confused too if I thought that at some point I might end up giving birth to a femur!

The substitution of testosterone for Oestrogen causes very significant changes including breast growth, fat redistribution from stomach to hips and rear bumper, muscle loss, changes in skin texture and consistency, changes of smell and many many more.

Does it stop male-patterned violence? Cause one's penis and testicles to drop off? Stop said people from acting in a male-privileged way?

No?

Then the answer is "no to male-bodied persons in women's private spaces".

@angryattackkittens yes!

It’s so blindingly simple that changing rooms should be about the physical body you have, not the feelings you have. It’s hard to know how else to explain it really without banging people’s heads against a wall.

Was it Lucy Masoud on R4 talking about the Fire Brigade's lack of women's showers and changing facilities? She spoke at the WPUK London meeting in Febuary (or March?) this year and was absolutely brilliant.

The loopholes already are there and are being exploited. A number of posts on here talk about "we can't let...".....too late! Women and TS people do have common cause over this the problem now arises when women are now turning round to genuine TS people and saying "sod UK law, you can &^% off and all".*

Is this 'common cause' an example of 'forced teaming'?

I did not vote for any party to bring in the GRA, which was rather forced on us by a European Court ruling that gave away women's legal rights and status to some men. Apparently I am 'too late' to have a say? Democracy anyone?

Yes, indie, it is. Those attempting it seem to be very frustrated that it's not working.

Does it stop male-patterned violence? Cause one's penis and testicles to drop off? Stop said people from acting in a male-privileged way?

The absence of testosterone does have a significant impact on behaviour. Indeed it is well recognised that that is the case and chemical castration is used in some countries with violent offenders. Take away testosterone and you take away aggression and a lot of other common male characteristics. Indeed when a biological woman is given testosterone aggression and violence has been seen to increase.

See www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

Whilst the penis and testicles dont drop off there is considerable shrinkage and impotence.

As to the male privileged way I genuinely dont think TS people from childhood onset behave that way. When you reject the male identity you were given you dont take in male privilege ...indeed the opposite. All my life I have been a freak, a thing, a faggot....I have been sexualised with numerous dick pics..... those experiences certainly dont afford you privilege. Make privilege comes from an exclusive men only club of stereotypical behaviour and self affirmation.... I was never welcome.

Your phrase referring to the way men act is interesting.... it isn't the penis that defines male behaviour it's the testosterone. It is testosterone that controls sex drive, aggression, muscle mass and therefore strength etc..

I'm sure this will be shot down but you cannot underestimate the impact of no testosterone in biological men.

Is this 'common cause' an example of 'forced teaming'?

It is for women to choose whether or not to accept TS support in those areas we agree. It certain strengthens an argument though when those who have first hand experience are able to speak out against something.

Sad to say many are shut down amidst allegations of transphobia; it's a lot harder to shut down a TS person!

The problem is that the legislation is flawed, if exemptions to maintain sex segregation have to be applied on an individual basis. I'm hoping that with a bit of sunlight, as happened on the Scottish panel to discuss the census question, the workable nature will be recognised and changed.

Perhaps that's too optimistic given how news of the word "woman" being used on the BBC is cause of celebration today but I still think it's worth pursuing (once the GRA reform has been dealt with).

Thirdly you are asking TS people to advertise their dysphoria. By walking into a third space I am making a public display of stating I am TS

You are already doing this by walking into the ladies as a male-bodied person.

Yep, some think they can hide their behaviour like they can hide their sex.

When that doesn't work they switch to redefining as something else and hope others get reeducated fall for it. Same old, same old.

*unworkable!

You are already doing this by walking into the ladies as a male-bodied person.

That assumes it would be immediately obvious and you cannot assume you can always tell.

That assumes it would be immediately obvious and you cannot assume you can always tell.

You seem to take so much pleasure and triumph in feeling that you have fooled women can't.

A great article...

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/evolution-the-self/201711/male-sexual-misconduct-and-the-testosterone-curse

If you pass, people will think you are a woman using a mixed-sex space. I don't see how the '3rd spaces will out me' argument works at all. As pp said upthread a large number of people using them are likely to be parents with small children or women avoiding the queue in the ladies.

Should women who have been treated badly by men not give an opinion because their experiences result in a perhaps a more extreme position the opposite way ?

Balanced discussion involves different perspectives

So you’re saying that discussion of how some men treat women, being violent towards us, secretly filming us while we undress etc etc, is not relevant to this discussion?! Is that really your position? 😳

Still can't see the issue with third spaces.

You seem to take so much pleasure and triumph in feeling that you have fooled women can't.

And without knowing anything about me a simple statement is turned into a criticism. If you read my previous posts you will know I use disabled spaces. Show me where I talk about using womens spaces.

What part if my statement is incorrect ?

Your statement shows a pre conception that I as a TS person have an intent to to "fool" women. Your statement was extremely hurtful.

Oh that bit was priceless, Slowly. When someone tells you who they are, etc.

So you’re saying that discussion of how some men treat women, being violent towards us, secretly filming us while we undress etc etc, is not relevant to this discussion?! Is that really your position? 😳

Of course that's not what I'm saying. Once again things I say are seen through an assumption of male privilege.

Am I being told that I have no right to express an opinion because men exist who exploit women and since biologically I'm male I forfeit that right ?

Is this 'common cause' an example of 'forced teaming'?

Forced teaming. Every time one analyses all this, one returns to the same thing.

I'm so tired of being stuck in Groundhog Day. Never bloody ends, this film.