A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

Exclusive: The woman was told that "no men are allowed" in the women's changing room after gym staff received a complaint from another member.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/puregym-trans-woman-changing-room

How long until the backlash forces a change in policy do you think?

The behaviour exhibited here seems more of voyeurism and fetishism than transgender.

Was it you cant who said this about the gym incident? Are those things always mutually exclusive? I can see how someone who suffers from GD might have the notion that all TS are vulnerable and too busy dealing with their personal issues to be 'pervs', but it can't be assumed that all TS are good eggs - we don't assume that about any group of people. The exceptionalism bothers me. And tbh, so do the "name another minority group..." types of appeals. The rights of other minorities do not create a conflict in the way trans rights do wrt single-sex spaces. You can't compare women to racists and homophobes.

I can see how someone who suffers from GD might have the notion that all TS are vulnerable and too busy dealing with their personal issues to be 'pervs', but it can't be assumed that all TS are good eggs - we don't assume that about any group of people. The exceptionalism bothers me.

I will admit I dont understand the concept of "perv"ing on women - whether it be from being biologically male & gay (a clumsy phrase but you know what I mean since the modern description is heterosexual transsexual women which I hate) or having had my testosterone removed. I really dont get it and maybe I am naive.

The issue of exceptionalism is a recent one. The GRA and EA were about transsexuals. It is only now we have the transgender umbrella and it is being seen that TS are asking to be seen as the exceptions within the TG group. The TG umbrella has swallowed the TS identity with their own twisted agenda and understandably women are saying that since it is impossible to tell good TS from anyone else exceptions can't be made; but agree with content or not TS people have certain rights. The TRAs did one heck of a number on womens rights and TS rights!

This is as gently as I can put this...perhaps people who are a bit naive as to the various ways in which men prey on women may not be in the best position to comment on the safety concerns raised by making it easier for men to access women's spaces. Perhaps such a person might be well advised to talk less and listen more when women are discussing those concerns.

How CAN we ( anyone) make sure that no male bodied people, or formerly male bodied people are totally excluded from female spaces?

Negotiations have to start with agreement on one key question:

Do transgender people change sex as well as 'gender'?

At present, the state says 'yes: transmen are men and transwomen are women' and produces laws, guidance and training to cement that idea in public consciousness

Dissenters say 'No, a transgender person remains male/female' and dissenters produce evidence in support of their position and point to the inherent dangers and risks.

Solutions cannot even begin until the state provides a straight answer to the the contentious central issue. They are under a duty to explain and justify their thinking, in the face of widespread, grassroots dissent.

Perhaps such a person might be well advised to talk less and listen more when women are discussing those concerns.

Should women who have been treated badly by men not give an opinion because their experiences result in a perhaps a more extreme position the opposite way ?

Balanced discussion involves different perspectives.

Do bear in mind that I have said all along I opposed demedicalisation, self ID, mermaids training and the transgender umbrella. I only ever recognised diagnosed transsexual people. I fully acknowledge that many men are opportunistic as to an opportunity to sexualise and exploit women using a manipulation of EA.

*Negotiations have to start with agreement on one key question:

Do transgender people change sex as well as 'gender'? *

Many TS people have contributed to this and overwhelmingly the answer is NO. Shutting down such a question as transphobia has historically prevented discussion which is ridiculous.

It is the argument that TWAW that is the most blatant appropriation.

(Sigh)

Well, I tried. If you're absolutely determined to demonstrate your complete inability to understand what the world looks like from a female perspective then far be it from me to stop you.

Well, I tried. If you're absolutely determined to demonstrate your complete inability to understand what the world looks like from a female perspective then far be it from me to stop you

I can never truly understand what the world looks like from a biological female perspective because I want born biological female.

Equaliy I dont understand the world from a male perspective either because since age 5 society has deemed me to be confirming to female stereotypes not male.

I could put that argument back to you and say you have a complete inability to see things from a transsexual perspective.

Despite our glaring differences I would still suggest there is a fair bit of common ground still.

If I had said what you had said I would be accused of red flag male pattern behaviour.

Nope, I'm done trying.

perhaps people who are a bit naive as to the various ways in which men prey on women may not be in the best position to comment on the safety concerns raised by making it easier for men to access women's spaces

Well quite

There seems to be a lot of general agreement on this thread on the issue of males feeling they can just use areas that are designated for females just because they feel they want to, or feel they are
transgender. The Transsexual women who have posted do understand that there are very strong and legitimate objections to this.

As far as I can see, the TS people on this thread have not been into open changing rooms or women's showers( sorry if I missed any that had) . I am past the age of needing changing rooms now, but would not have used open changing rooms anyway. It is simply not fair, even for a post op passer or at worst almost -passer like me. Because you do not know what effect one would be having, if someone spots you.I have close relatives whose lives were damaged irreparably by abusive men.

I see no-one on this thread who is defending the " trans women are women, so hard luck " line...… we might have some time for it about membership of a political women's group, as long as there was no standing for office, but not in showers or changing rooms.

What makes some of us inclined to post more often than we might is that we face quite a lot of sarky comments, and some point scoring at our expense. It does tend to happen, and be carried on with for post after post .So we try to explain ourselves, to refute accusations made.

Some of the points made about our " male behaviour" do not really stand up to scrutiny . My whole career was in female dominated settings, and quite afew of the strong women ( heads, consultant physios, psychologists, speech and language therapists, etc) were forceful people, who had they been male might have been characterised by some as "typical males wanting to dominate." But they weren't .hey were strong, forceful, inspirational women.

It is such a shame that this atmosphere of suspicion lingers. Because we are allies in the anti self ID thing, not enemies.

Despite our glaring differences I would still suggest there is a fair bit of common ground still.

This thread is about women only communal changing rooms. Many women on here are saying how important it is that they are sex not gender segregated.

Telling us that this isn't fair or is taking rights away from male transpeople isn't common ground. It's you wanting to remove sex segregation. The very thing that women and girls need and want.

Telling us that this isn't fair or is taking rights away from male transpeople isn't common ground. It's you wanting to remove sex segregation

Am I reading a different post because I cannot in a million years see how you could think Kay was saying that !

I wasn't responded to Kay.

I am glad the gym used the exemptions any way. Lots more like them needed.

Should we write to more chains asking for for them to do this?

Telling us that this isn't fair or is taking rights away from male transpeople isn't common ground. It's you wanting to remove sex segregation

If you are referring to what I wrote I can't see how you reached that conclusion either.

I have never ever stated I wanted to remove sex segregation.

It is also a factually statement that what is being proposed right now is not just about halting the spread of modern transgender ideology but about the revocation of the Equality Act which rightly or wrongly allows me to use a female space should I choose to do so.

Yes, Bubonic, I think we should. Probably most effective if the letters come from women who're members of the gyms in question.

I am glad the gym used the exemptions any way. Lots more like them needed.

I think this is the only way forward.

All you remind me of is those men who won't take NO for an answer.

I am getting really sick of every time someone doesn't like something I say the standard response is to accuse me of behaving like a man.

Women and people have common ground over demedicalisation, self id, mermaids agenda and much more. Why is discussion so threatening ?

You may be getting sick of it. I'm getting sick of a lot of stuff.
You didn't answer my question.

LOL at "women and people".

Blimey.

You may be getting sick of it. I'm getting sick of a lot of stuff.
You didn't answer my question.

While you talk to me like that nothing I say is going to be right so what's the point ?

You clearly have a different position to me but I dont resort to offensive messages.