A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

[OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon]

A Trans Woman Was Asked To Leave The Women's Changing Room At A PureGym

Exclusive: The woman was told that "no men are allowed" in the women's changing room after gym staff received a complaint from another member.

www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/puregym-trans-woman-changing-room

How long until the backlash forces a change in policy do you think?

It’s very telling that time after time, discussions are derailed into bad women for not allowing men to ride roughshod over you away from why don’t men use men’s facilities?

Would that more males had the courage of those females.

Could you tell me the origin of that phrase, Materialist? I mean, clearly you didn't think of it by yourself.

How CAN we ( anyone) make sure that no male bodied people, or formerly male bodied people , are totally excluded from female spaces?

In exactly the same way as we have done for centuries.

Women see a male bodied person and they alert the others / security to remove him.

Other men see a male bodied person trying to get into women's spaces and they stop him (men are way more unforgiving of suspect males than women in my experience).

Social taboos means a male bodied person would feel wrong going into a female space. If he needs a space away from other men he finds himself a third space.

This is not new. Women as really good at spotting men. If the man passes amazingly well as a woman then there's no problem anyway because nobody notices to be bothered.

How CAN we ( anyone) make sure that no male bodied people, or formerly male bodied people , are totally excluded from female spaces?

There are two things that are being asked here...

1. How do you stop the new wave of transgender people gaining access to womens spaces (and on that we have common cause)
2. How do you take back the rights already given to TS people in 2004 and 2010.

As to point two this is where we have contention. You will have no arguments from me as to point 1.
I have heard many times that TS people should go fight for their own rights and stop coopting womens - fact is we do have rights and whilst we can all argue over their appropriateness and morality these are the rights we have.
I also hear "but women didn't agree". That may be true but can you name me any minority group that asked permission ? Did women ask men for permission historically in advancing womens rights or were they obtained through protest and legal process.

What TS people are being told is that the 2004 Gender Recognition Act and section 7 of the 2010 Equality Act should be revoked and we should try again and find something that is acceptable to all parties. As we have seen there is unlikely to be a common solution.

I don't like where we are either. There probably are better solutions.

I would like gender abolished instead of reified; I’d like nothing in society coded as feminine or masculine except the inherent differences our sexed bodies create

In complete agreement with this. When we stop defining who someone is based on what's in their pants then society will ultimately be in a far better place.

The personi know who mansplains the most is my daughter. It’s a bit of an autistic trait too.

Can’tgetrid - you come across to me as a genuinely nice person living a difficult life and I for one am grateful for your input on this thread.

I have heard many times that TS people should go fight for their own rights and stop coopting womens - fact is we do have rights and whilst we can all argue over their appropriateness and morality these are the rights we have.

Perhaps it is time to examine the great con that stole women's rights, undermined safeguarding and took away free speech without anyone 'kicking up a fuss in the press'.

Saying we are defined by what's in our pants is a ridiculous trvialusation. The discrimination I have experienced my entire life is because of the reproductive class I was born into.

Descrimination against me again because of gender by giving advantages to males over females is the same old thing.

Lang don’t you know I have a book that helps me substitute manly poetic prose for mundane womanly prose? It’s called “Rodger’s Thesaurus.”

I knew it would be something like that. Perish thinking otherwise.

It's almost as if Currer Bell, George Eliot, A M Barnard, George Sand... oh, I can't be arsed. Just stop worrying your pretty little head with all these clever turns of phrase, okay?!

Saying we are defined by what's in our pants is a ridiculous trvialusation. The discrimination I have experienced my entire life is because of the reproductive class I was born into.

I dont see definition and the discrimination you take about as being the same thing.

Definition starts from the day children are born with girls wear pink, boys were blue. Get to primary school and boys wear shorts and gave short hair, girls wear skirts and have long hair. Into secondary school and girls wear makeup and jewellry and but don't. Girls play netball, boys play football.

Definition says how society expects someone to be within certain groups. Discrimination is about the way the groups treat each other and the dominance if one group over another.

And unless and until males stop committing sexual violence against girls and women, unless and until the male gaze ceases to govern society, unless and until the female body stops being an object of male consumption,

I am in total agreement but I would add that the reasons you give here are the same issues that genuine TS people have.

But yes, society is governed by the alpha Male.

There's nothing 'alpha' about male pattern violence. And letting all men access women only spaces by making sure we cant challenge any male in them isn't the solution to anyone's problems.

The third space is the only fair answer.

And letting all men access women only spaces by making sure we cant challenge any male in them isn't the solution to anyone's problems.

Agreed.

Identificationism is not about changing stereotypes though is it? It's about pretending the sex class you were born is immaterial in all circumstances. Which it isn't. Identificationism is not a philanthropic venture designed to eliminate discrimination against females, its a deliberate demobilisation of the sex based rights of females for the benefit of males.

We know this, no amount of word salad about gender can obscure this agenda. We are not confused about what is going on, it's completely clear, and it's becoming more and more abusive by the month.

Never falling for it.

Did I really just read a total mansplain of well actually ladies let me tell you how gender stereotypes and sex discrimination really work?

No you didn't. And I find your comment offensive.

Why does everything I say get accused of mansplaining, male privilege etc.. ? You are looking for something that isn't there.

It is also a stereotype to say that men are abusive and dominating and women are oppressed, meek and submissive.

What are statistics and how can we use them to understand the world around us?

Oh, I got deleted. That's unusual for me. I found the post I was reacting to offensive. Looks like we are both offended then. Not entirely sure why mine was deletable though.

There's been a few comments referring obliquely to my question about the phrase " wearing our faces". I'm sorry that anyone would have thought that I was assuming that a woman could not have thought of that phrase. Though one of the three suggestions ( novel/ film/ academic feminism quite clearly assumes a female source. So, not guilty, despite the charge.

If it was the creation of the person who posted it, great.She is to be congratulated. I was asking; a powerful and flexible image. I may nick it for my own uses, as I try to write .

Langcleg has assumed that I thought that only men could create them. Can I refer anyone who is interested in such things to my current reading matter, the self titled book of poetry by Hera Lindsay Bird. UK publication 2017
By god SHE can coin a phrase. MY other current book has been Anne Tyler's"Dinner at the homesick restaurant" A few good phrases in there, too.

You did assert that definition of female is stereotypes and discrimination against female is, well you just said it is something one group does to another. Which said nothing really, just basically told me that my point made no sense. Which I realise you probably didn't understand so I've spelt it out for you above.

Many, many attempts have been made to try to use gender as the reason the word female means male and female, and the word male means male and female.

It's doesn't work. Because its simply not true.

Perhaps it is time to examine the great con that stole women's rights, undermined safeguarding and took away free speech without anyone 'kicking up a fuss in the press'.

Indeed. "Well we've been doing this unfair thing for quite a while now" is not a valid moral argument for continuing to do it.

I wouldn't be particularly comfortable with anyone that wasn't also female* changing in the female changing rooms.
Changing rooms are very private.

*biologically