Women 'risk health over trans NHS worker fear' article in tomorrow's Times Scotland edition

[PlectrumElectrum]

Only have tweet link to front page so far.

https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1074802181809803267?s=21

If anyone has a share token & can link to that when article online, I'd appreciate it 🙏🏻

Thanks Pain, what a surprise that Scottish Trans haven't replied! They can't say that W&G understanding is correct (or even that they think it's correct) as that's our very argument against expanding GRC. We are convened that we can't stop holders from legally accessing women's spaces or jobs.

Rape crisis Scotland on same thread are claiming EA covers some exemptions. But here is a current job advert from RCS using schedule 9 of EA to advertise for a woman only role but saying they welcome trans women as applicants! So what's their real reading of EA?
twitter.com/ForwomenScot/status/1075086475061051395?s=20

Surely they are opening themselves up to a discrimination claim by men unless they restrict that solely to GRC holders who are "legally female"? As with all women shortlists.

Sex is not gender.

I suppose men who wanted to hold the post would just identify as a women whereas men who wanted to respect women’s boundaries wouldn’t want to apply so wouldn’t pursue a legal challenge. We need a man to highlight the inconsistencies by taking this to court.

It just proves that the whole thing is a legally mess. This has to help put the brakes on, surely?

It is a rational, reasonable, widely held and evidentially proven belief that a TW is male. that's undeniable. A woman who holds that belief will reasonably not accept a TW when having specifically requested a female hcp.

Right to belief. Right to not be gaslit, insulted and physically assaulted in the name of someone else's belief. Right to say no.

We are happy to contact health boards to clarify that if an patient has a trauma or religious need then there are sensible ways of adjusting service accordingly.

Why should women have to prove that they've been raped in order to justify preferring a female HCP? The fact that a rape crisis org would go along with that is horrifying.

If a religious need (an actual self id’d characteristic as opposed to sex) would trump transgenderism in this instance, can I be chosen by a gender critical eternal being who passes on her divine and insightful wisdom, spread the word to the wider population, establish a religion and then insist on sex segregated spaces?

Or perhaps we could all agree that just saying no is enough.

If we're going to play that stupid game, then fine. I am now a follower of Artemis and my religion requires that I have access to women only spaces as and when I say so. Showering in spaces where only women are allowed is now a sacrament, and pap smears are an expression of holy devotion in which only females may be present, as any male being in the room is sacrilege.

Hey, it makes more sense than "female penis".

If we're going to play that stupid game, then fine. I am now a follower of Artemis and my religion requires that I have access to women only spaces as and when I say so. Showering in spaces where only women are allowed is now a sacrament, and pap smears are an expression of holy devotion in which only females may be present, as any male being in the room is sacrilege.

I agree, 2 can play the self id game. Arseholes.

It must be a tiny number of people who would be affected by a law stating that trans women can’t perform intimate medical treatment? There aren’t a huge amount of trans women, and only a small proportion of those will work in healthcare, and only a small proportion of those will be in a specific healthcare sector where they would perform intimate treatment. And I think a lot of trans people would be decent human beings and just not apply for jobs involving intimate female care to avoid controversy and discomfort for others. How many trans women will really be put out by not being eligible to provide intimate treatment?

Not many, and as pp said, those who want to put themselves in that position are exactly the ones who shouldn’t be doing it.

someone linked to this on an aibu thread. it is about informed consent. i have copied quotes:

"Consent has to be given voluntarily – consent where an individual has been coerced into making the decision will not be valid.
Sufficient information also has to be offered to enable the individual to understand the nature of the decision and its likely consequences, including the consequences of declining the treatment or intervention."

"A doctor who operates without the consent of his patient, save in cases of emergency or mental disability, is guilty of the civil wrong of trespass to the person; he is also guilty of the criminal offence of assault."

being asked to accept a transwoman who is biologically male to perform an intimate procedure seems to me to fall under coercion. many women would find it hard to say no - either due to past trauma meaning they freeze; female socialisation to not make a fuss; English as a second language; fear of upsetting the nurse's feelings; fear of being labelled transphobic (and being given substandard care because of it or even worse - hello W Yorks Police).

if a patient has requested a female nurse and are offered a transwoman i also feel that "sufficient information" has not been offered.

www.bma.org.uk/advice/employment/ethics/medical-students-ethics-toolkit/6-consent-to-treatment-capacity

Milky watch the number of self identifying trans'women' nurses rocket when predatory men realise that they have the chance to treat vulnerable women, frighten then and even inflict pain.

I am not talking about transwomen here, but predatory sex offenders who would get a huge thrill in such a situation. And yes, they would train up and spend years pursuing their career because that is what men do. It would be a dream come true for them.

Think this sounds far fetched? There is a category of porn on Pornhub (and elsewhere) called 'Obstetrics and Gynaecology'.

I am struggling to follow things today.

Are they saying women will be forced to declare sexual assault so they can access basic health care with a women rather than a man doing intimate exam? As in make people share information they would rather not or re-live an assault?

Male midwives - I said no male midwife on my birth plan and it was never questioned.

Are they saying women will be forced to declare sexual assault so they can access basic health care with a women rather than a man doing intimate exam?

In effect, yes. Because men's feelings are more important than women's feelings. Same as it ever was.

Yes - no is not enough apparently.

Many women who are in coercive and controlling relationships are not allowed to have medical appointments unless they can guarantee they will be seen by female staff.

Yes. some religious women will also not wish to be treated by a man. But this seems to be completely ignored. Wasn't is Madigan who said that Muslims should be 'educated' out of this mindset?

Thank you. The implications of trans self ID brings up new violations of women everyday.

Time for Scottish women to join the Pussy Church of Modern Witchcraft en masse, eh?

www.forbes.com/sites/peterjreilly/2018/08/03/lesbians-want-a-church-of-their-own-and-irs-approves/#6a1264b521c2

Sorry if someone has already explained this in one of the answers above, but the issue appears to be that if a trans-woman HCP is in possession of a GRC they legally don't have to disclose that they are transgender, and even if the health authority knows about it, they aren't legally allowed to disclose to the patient that the HCP is transgender. It all hinges on the GRC. It seems almost as if there is no way around it and same-sex healthcare provision can't be guaranteed unless the patient is able to request a known HCP by name.

It's a travesty. We should take to the streets.

I think we're going to have to, Moana.

The current Scottish SNP Government were loud in their condemnation of benefits being restricted to two children - unless the mother could prove that a third child was a result of rape. They raged and shrieked about it. Maybe they would like to do the same as surely this is the same situation, women having to declare assault or rape to be allowed a female HCP.
I think that female only care must be provided to all women whether they have been assaulted or raped or not btw.

but I'm really hoping I've got this wrong!

You've understood correctly. Men's feelings are paramount and take precedence over women's feelings. Welcome to the Wonderful World of the Woke.