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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women 'risk health over trans NHS worker fear' article in tomorrow's Times Scotland edition

133 replies

PlectrumElectrum · 17/12/2018 23:38

Only have tweet link to front page so far.

https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1074802181809803267?s=21

If anyone has a share token & can link to that when article online, I'd appreciate it 🙏🏻

OP posts:
AngryAttackKittens · 21/12/2018 21:50

I wish I was joking, but nope. I mean, it's their term anyway so in that sense fill your boots mate, but it does demonstrate that there's no linguistic way out of this other than refusing to give any ground at all.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 21/12/2018 21:55

The intentional aim is to confuse and obfusticate language and create social anxiety around it in order to prevent women being able to have the words to express what they mean or to refuse the validation this is all about.

Which is partly why here where possible women tend to use the right terms and not buy into it. As a pp says, the real world knows exactly what the words mean and don't know about this online jargon, it's nonsense to most. witness on women's hour, the effort to try and get TRAs to explain what 'cis' meant (and they couldn't, essentially.)

It's been very interesting watching the Scots census discussion and seeing people realise for themselves, sex and gender have to be separated. You can be any gender you want, great, but sex is a fact and needs to be considered separately. That's the only way forward. Plus, as I keep saying, reminding the authorities over and over again, however supportive you wish to be of people who hold unusual and different beliefs, women may not hold these beliefs. It is reasonable to believe a TW is male. Women holding this belief will not be amenable or even able to tolerate a TW doing anything they would not be ready to agree to any other male doing.

That's very difficult in law and policy to ignore.

Mariotta · 21/12/2018 21:56

Those few it may happen to though are too many. Particularly since the women likely to be distressed by this are vulnerable and likely to be the least able to stand up for themselves in the heat of the moment. The options are a woman enduring trauma in the name of 'inclusion' for others that excludes them, or being unable to accept care. Other vulnerable women will just quietly avoid care in the first place.

Yes, those of us who are more robust need to be insisting on HCPs who are women for all intimate procedures so that the point is made.

I think stipulating that we require a same sex practitioner is the way to word it.

FFSFFSFFS · 21/12/2018 22:02

How about:

A member of the group in society that you are not allowed to say no to?

The TRA's can't be disagreeing with that can they? And we ALL know who that group is.

HomeStar · 21/12/2018 22:03

it does demonstrate that there's no linguistic way out of this other than refusing to give any ground at all.

Yes. I'm convinced of that now, and very happy to consign "cisgender" to the linguistic rubbish heap it belongs on. Would still like to see the form letter thing happen though it would definitely need a lawyer to draft one!

FloralBunting · 21/12/2018 22:17

I consider using cisgender the same as if I wouldn't let you in a church unless you genuflected to the Tabernacle. I do it because I believe God is there. Forcing others to do it would just be a power trip.

And lo, that is the purpose of the Genderist jargon. Submission is the goal. Once that's done, the hull of the ship is split and water will swamp the boat in pretty short order.

AngryAttackKittens · 21/12/2018 22:29

Precisely, Floral. Freedom of belief is already enshrined in law in many countries. Therefore, genderists have the right to believe in the existence of a female penis, and everyone else has a right to firmly reject that belief. Neither the law nor organizations should be changed to accomodate genderist beliefs.

DisrespectfulAdultFemale · 22/12/2018 07:18

I like the phrase "person of the same sex".

And I agree with Floral: it's about power and domination. If we accepted being called "cis" - and it will be a cold day in Hell before I do that - then "cis" will be deemed offensive and we will be forced to use another term that TRAs and their allies deem appropriate. Then, there will be another term. And another one.

Nope. TRAs and their allies have pushed me too far. I am not compromising on my rights. Now or ever. And that if makes me a bigot or a transphobe, so be it.

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