Women 'risk health over trans NHS worker fear' article in tomorrow's Times Scotland edition

[PlectrumElectrum]

Only have tweet link to front page so far.

https://twitter.com/thetimesscot/status/1074802181809803267?s=21

If anyone has a share token & can link to that when article online, I'd appreciate it 🙏🏻

So pissed off that we somehow have to prove trauma to legitimise our request for female only healthcare. It is fucking outrageous.

We need to just say NO. No qualification or explanation, just no.

I can only imagine the kind of transwoman that would have a burning desire to carry out smear tests as opposed to a those who accept that it is not appropriate and will not push the envelope. Let's face it, the kind of men who will want to do this are precisely the kind of men we want to avoid.

Ditto this for forcing their way in to our loos, changing rooms, etc etc

I would actually rather have my treatment done by a man than a transwoman who is telling me they are the female HCP I requested.

This. It's trust broken before we've even started.

@OrchidInTheSun

James Morton is indeed trans, according to this article. Very full of themselves, always keen to shut down debate, no comments available for this article.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/23/woman-wednesdays-transphobic-labour-trans

The hospital/clinic doesn’t have to violate the transwoman’s confidentiality if they don’t try to foist her off on patients in the first place.

They don’t have to name the transnurse. Simply ask the patient will they accept a transwoman, don’t say ‘Will you accept Nurse Brianna Twinkle-Glitter?’

Excellent point, Aspie.

Actually yes - it is the deception and the gaslighting which are the issues here.
My gynaecologist was a man and he examined me several times before my operation (endo). The difference is that I KNEW he was male and he did not pretend otherwise plus I had a female nurse chaperone which is standard practice when a male Dr. is carrying out an intimate examination.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg

So pissed off that we somehow have to prove trauma to legitimise our request for female only healthcare. It is fucking outrageous.

Highly reminiscent of the rape clause, isn't it?

Good point about the male doctor requiring a female chaperone when undertaking intimate examinations.
Women should not have to justify asking for an alternative nurse or doctor.
I find this really curious, having had a baby and various intimate examinations over the years, smears, etc, each time my consent and dignity have been assiduously sought and protected, yet put a transwoman into the mix and those expectations go out of the window. Again, why is their validation more important than my choice or consent?

Yes - this is how we know that no-one believes for one single moment that these men are real women. Their wants are consistently seen to be more important than women's needs - male privilege in action.

If you adopt a highly novel definition of 'female' and 'male' that the majority of the general public will not share in or agree with, it's inevitably going to cause major fuck ups.

If you try to force women to allow males to call themselves females and perform intimate care when the woman is clear they do not agree, do not want this and will refuse treatment -

that's beyond fucked up, that's something that has no place in the modern UK.

I am delighted to welcome help from a trans professional of any sex in any situation that does not involve my body being intimately touched or examined. In that situation, I want a female professional and I don't care how they personally view their identity, and will otherwise not be accepting treatment. I hold the deepest suspicion of any medical professional who would not in any case always put their patient's needs and sense of safety above validating their own personal feelings.

James Morton is from Scottish Trans Alliance which is linked to Equality Network. They have been putting in supplementary submissions to the committee looking at the census in which they claim that sex-based protection in GRA covers legal not biological sex.

Tim Hopkins of EN, himself, wrote: "in a nutshell, "sex" in the Equality Act refers to legal sex, not biological sex at birth, and in the case of trans people these two may be different."

They have absolutely no intention of respecting exemptions on the basis of bio sex.

Can women also object to a male midwife? Because I don't see much difference between the examinations performed there eg.checking dilation or a sweep, and a smear test

I had a male (not trans) midwife during my Dds birth. I was asked if it was ok and he was accompanied by a female midwife the whole time. This was 7 years ago, I wonder would they even bother asking now as apparently women aren't allowed to refuse intimate exams from a male anymore. Or maybe it's only when they tell us they are actually a woman, despite what our eyes can see. Why does that change things? Why does one male need permission and to be chaperoned but not another?

I would actually rather have my treatment done by a man than a transwoman who is telling me they are the female HCP I requested.

Quite. A man who acknowledges that I may be uncomfortable and asks if it is okay is highly preferrable to a male who intentionally violates my clearly stated boundaries.

plus I had a female nurse chaperone which is standard practice when a male Dr. is carrying out an intimate examination

Safeguarding women seems to come second to trans wants. What is the need for a female chaperone? Why does this risk suddenly disappear when the person identifies through words slonevas female?

“If someone is telling me they’re female, when I can see that they’re male, I’m already thinking the worst. They’re already lying to me. I would leave.”

and

"I would actually rather have my treatment done by a man than a transwoman who is telling me they are the female HCP I requested.

Quite. A man who acknowledges that I may be uncomfortable and asks if it is okay is highly preferrable to a male who intentionally violates my clearly stated boundaries.

Totally this.

And men who seek to break women's boundaries for their own motivations - No.

That's just No, from a woman.

slonevas = ‘alone as’

It is like the advice to, if you are in a vulnerable situation and need help, pick a random stranger instead of waiting for someone to offer help.

A randomly picked man has a much lower risk of being a predator than a man who sees a woman in a vulnerable situation and wants to get closer to her. True for having been dosed with a date rape drug, but also true for needing medical treatment.

A man who acknowledges that I may be uncomfortable and asks if it is okay is highly preferrable to a male who intentionally violates my clearly stated boundaries.

That's the difference, isn't it? Informed consent, rather than being forced to accept a lie.

More about the NHS Scotland and gender issues today:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/don-t-assume-people-s-gender-nhs-staff-told-6jvvqvtc9?shareToken=d12d259d1407fbc808a3a086c74a598e

Wow, that’s another great article in the Times.
The point about these training sessions being delivered by small pressure groups like the Scottish Trans Alliance is so important. How much money are they making from creating this “training”? It looks like a veritable cottage industry, from where I am sitting!
The point about e.g. older patients feeling disrespected by a “they” pronoun is so important. I would personally get offended by any policy of only using a singular they pronoun for everyone! That trans activists had nothing to say about such an obvious issue just demonstrates again to me that apparently TRAs cannot understand they live in a society with a multiplicity of perspectives, and people/language/society has to work for everyone, not just bend over backwards to accommodate the supposed desires of a fraction of people championing one specific cause. I am not saying non binary people should be disrespected or not be made welcome, but let’s keep things in proportion, please!

I find it fascinating how women are 'not allowed' things in health care on their own terms yet self ID which affects others and breaks all sorts of medical ethics and safeguarding is absolutely sacrosanct.

No I would not seek medical treatment if I thought I might be treated by a trans woman against my wishes and without being informed because I have major issues around trust with HCP and not having my wishes respected. It would undermine all the work that has been done by good HCPs to try and treat my anxiety in one fell swoop. It's all about trust for me.

This this this^

*“If someone is telling me they’re female, when I can see that they’re male, I’m already thinking the worst. They’re already lying to me. I would leave.”

and

"I would actually rather have my treatment done by a man than a transwoman who is telling me they are the female HCP I requested.

Quite. A man who acknowledges that I may be uncomfortable and asks if it is okay is highly preferrable to a male who intentionally violates my clearly stated boundaries.*

You are all so eloquent. This a million times.

Why do women have to have been the victim of fucking violence before we’re allowed autonomy over our own bodies?

For what it’s worth I’ve never been sexually assaulted why the hell are my boundaries not going to be respected?

So fucking angry. Like I need to be totally traumatised before I’m allowed to say no to men?

somen and Girls in Scotland
@WG_Scotland
Women and girls in Scotland who arrange female-only care may be faced with a male HCP if that HCP has changed their legal sex to female. This is not acceptable.
@scotgov
should not move forward with their Self ID proposals until they have addressed this issue.

A Non Man Speaks
@anonmanspeaks
What is
@rapecrisisscot
's position on this? I understand that they support sex self-ID.

Rape Crisis Scotland
@rapecrisisscot
Replying to
@anonmanspeaks
@WG_Scotland
and
@scotgov
Our understanding is that
@ScottishTrans
is correct, the Equality Act sets out exemptions which cover intimate examinations

A Non Man Speaks
@anonmanspeaks
Thank you for replying. What is your response to the quote in the article from
@NHS_Lothian
? [photo attached]

Scottish Trans
@ScottishTrans
Replying to
@anonmanspeaks
@rapecrisisscot
and 3 others
They may be meaning a blanket ban on a trans member of staff providing such services would not be acceptable. We are happy to contact health boards to clarify that if an patient has a trauma or religious need then there are sensible ways of adjusting service accordingly.

Women and Girls in Scotland
@WG_Scotland
Please could you clarify this here, as it is not at all clear how female-only care can be provided if NHS cannot legally identify male GRC holders in order to exclude them?

forwomen.scot
@ForwomenScot
Surely, STA argue that revealing trans status is a breach of human rights? In which case they do not believe that women or the nhs have a right to this information. If the GRA is expanded, this situation will be so much more concerning.

Women and Girls in Scotland
Women and Girls in Scotland
@WG_Scotland
Yes the problem is a transwoman nurse or Dr who is legally female cannot be required to disclose their trans status, & they'd have to do so in order for the single sex exceptions to be applied.
@ScottishTrans
our understanding & NHS Lothian's is that it'd have to be voluntary

mobile.twitter.com/WG_Scotland/status/1074829471096684544