Sally Hines is writing female out of feminism- I'm terrified

[CrazyToast]

I've just seen this on twitter. 'Female' is only something anti trans people say and is not relevant to feminism. What if feminism becomes undermined too? Are they trying to take our only weapon and safe place? Why try to take away the biological needs of women rather than add those of trans women? How can this person think they are qualified and justified in re-defining feminism to exclude something fundamental to the majority of women?

My blood ran cold when I saw it because Sally Hines is an academic receiving a lot of funding to do this research.

Men's sexual rights. Natch.

Yup. Legalise sex work (but do nothing to reduce the unequal conditions that lead to women selling their bodies).
Be porn-positive and stamp down on 'kink-shaming' (AKA calling out men who get off on degrading and humiliating women during sex).
Refer to women as sluts and whores and tell them to see this as empowering.
Tell women that their problems pale in comparison to those of men.

You don't become a professor through length of service, you become one through getting big research grants and having published a lot.
That said, I think it is absolutely right to say Rosa Freedman is infinitely more intelligent and thus a threat to her, thus the unpleasantly personal tone of her tweets against Rosa.
People whose careers rely on bullshit are going to be very insecure indeed when clever analytical people turn their attention to the same subject area.

Tell women that their problems pale in comparison to those of men.

Disappeared down a MRA / Jordan Peterson rabbit hole today, I'm going for a long bath to scrub myself clean

There seems to be this theory (on those boards) that one way or another women sell their bodies either for security or lifestyle/children or more straightforwardly for cold hard cash. I honestly thought that this attitude was dying out - but scratch the surface and there we are :/

You know I didn't think that this was a thing... that friends were exaggerating. ugh.

There seems to be this theory (on those boards) that one way or another women sell their bodies either for security or lifestyle/children or more straightforwardly for cold hard cash. I honestly thought that this attitude was dying out - but scratch the surface and there we are :/

For many women across the globe, that is the reality. It's more like slavery than selling though, because the key is you have no control. But yes, I think it's a big mistake to believe that we have achieved equality. Even in this country, 2 women a week are murdered by current or former partners and countless more are assaulted. You can see on these boards day after day women whose partners are physically, sexually and financially abusive and it just becomes normal to them.
In order to truly tackle oppression, you have to name its source and try to break down the structures that hold it up. Part of that is challenging the notion of the ideal heterosexual family with a male breadwinner and a female carer.

Presumably Hines also wants to put an end to us talking about female and male socialisation.

So we are taking bodies out of any and all talk about women’s conditions, and we are now also told to remove the social elements. Which leaves us with only individual identifications. Thatchers dream has come true; there is no such thing as society, there are only people.

I wonder if people like Hines realise that they are working on furthering extreme Thatcherism.

She's expressing an opinion. It's a truly batshit opinion.

The thing is not to be terrified of something that is merely a 'novel' opinion, or to regard it as powerful or gospel. Other people hold other opinions and other perspectives, and this battle is about whoever you are, whatever funding you hold, normal people don't act as if you can personally define everyone else's reality. And oh yes, let's look at law. And the human rights of others. And how the man in the street regards this kind of interesting point of view.

The flip side of her 'no one uses the word female without an anti trans agenda' suggestion is 'no one tries to convince others that the word 'female' is political and weighted instead of a simple fact without an anti woman, anti biology and anti democratic agenda'.
Defend that one Sal.

I wonder if people like Hines realise that they are working on furthering extreme Thatcherism.

I think this all the time.

The police are one of those groups of people who routinely refer to “males” and “females” rather than “men” or “women”. So that’s quite funny.

Oh, and biologists, of course. They use “male” and “female” a lot. The transphobic bastards.

Oh well, at least she went for woman over 'womxn'. So there's that.

"no-one without an anti-trans agenda says female anymore. People say women"

Er, except those involved with medical research who understand the differences between a male and female body. For starters....

I'd often wondered were usages like "woman doctor" and "woman astronaut" had come from, when the equivalent would be "male doctor" and "male astronaut", not "man doctor" and "man astronaut". It hadn't occurred to me that this might be an attempt to erase the word "female" from language referring to humans.

I think there is a Sally Hines who IS trans though.

Hadley Freeman is speaking out. Good on you Hadley!

I'd often wondered were usages like "woman doctor" and "woman astronaut" had come from, when the equivalent would be "male doctor" and "male astronaut", not "man doctor" and "man astronaut". It hadn't occurred to me that this might be an attempt to erase the word "female" from language referring to humans

I think you are inventing a conspiracy theory here. The common usage was female [insert traditional male job] or even lady [insert traditional male job].

It is an extreme bubble Hines lives in, the same bubble people who claim "male bodied" is an "old fashioned" way of describing male bodies. (That's if they really believe that. I don't know that they do, unless they've done self hypnosis by repeating the words over and over.)

There's money behind it. Men always have money, and male anti-feminists are willing to spend it on an anti feminist agenda.

For example, in the 1980's, anti feminist organizations spent money and political capital removing women's studies from college curricula and replacing it with "gender studies" so that people like Sally Hines have a job.

You know how people call this period "3rd wave feminism"? It's not a wave. It's backlash and gaslighting, and MRA's trying to co-opt it all, from rape stats, DV stats, and the word feminism itself to prevent a real wave from forming.

So we don't need to campaign against FGM any more, unless we're going to out ourselves as massive transphobes?

Sally seems increasingly, um, unwell. Her recent tweets are bizarre (and a number were deleted).

God forbid any of these people ever opens a science textbook to the “reproductive biology” section.
We should be concerned. But I am not frightened as much as reminded of why feminism is so needed. So proud of the women seeing right through this bullshit. Female centred feminists are amazing.
People like Sally may be getting funding and accolades, but they can’t stamp out the truth. Agree with previous posters who said her “perspective” really looks like a male-generated backlash against female gains. “Liberal” 3rd wave “feminism” is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

Would she be classed as a woman or male? Her anti woman aggression is surely ‘cis male’ attitude. So that’s a non-cis male?

I can’t keep up with all this new-speak babble nonsense.

I can’t keep up with all this new-speak babble nonsense.

Me neither.

NotDavidTennant: 'I'd often wondered were usages like "woman doctor" and "woman astronaut" had come from, when the equivalent would be "male doctor" and "male astronaut", not "man doctor" and "man astronaut".'

That always used to interest me too. When I was a child you often used to hear the term "lady doctor", but it would be "male nurse" or "male model". Mind you, when I was a kid you'd still hear words like "poetess" or "manageress", which sound very archaic now.

I don't think it was anything to do with erasing the word "female", though.

My view on Sally Hines is that she's monumentally thick, yet has somehow risen to the status of professor without anyone ever working this out.

When I was a child you often used to hear the term "lady doctor", but it would be "male nurse" or "male model".

Interesting... yes, the idea that calling women 'female' is somehow dehumanising or derogatory somehow doesn't seem to translate to the use of 'Male' when referring to men. Funny, that. Is it just the same old thing where men's words are good and strong, women's words mostly aren't?

Oh dear

twitter.com/sally_hines/status/1067209357555888129

Gender and progressive politics can’t be based on a hierarchy of difference in this way and we’ve seen this before and it’s very, very dangerous. We’ve seen this before in relation to the position of black women, we’ve seen it before in relation to the position of working class women. As feminists we’ve got to move away from a politics which is based around perceptions of realness.

1). Black women and working class women are women. My great grandmother gave birth to 9 children because she was female, not because she lived in Limehouse. It is possible to be female but not working class, and working class but not female. Some oppressed people are not female.

2). I'm afraid every single last bit of my feminism is about 'realness'.

I am 5'5", not because I freakishly short compared to the other members of my family, but because I am female.

Blood has flown out of my body every 3-4 weeks for decades, not because I have haemophilia, but because I am female.

I have grown two humans in my body, because I am female.

Sally Hine's 'intersectionality' is the woke equivalent of 'all lives matter'.

Sally Hines loves to bleat "Trans Women are Women", she can't say "Trans Women are Female" and it annoys her.

I like to annoy her so tend to use Female rather than Woman in a lot of my arguments now.

Which probably means she's won one battle, but I'm still fighting the war and am in it for the long run....