Can someone explain what "genderqueer" means?

[beenandgoneandbackagain]

I'm struggling to understand what people mean when they say they identify as "genderqueer".

Just about everything else I can think of in the various debates/discussions in the FWR board can be viewed objectively. e.g. a male who presents in a certain way, I can see how they are presenting, and accept that they may identify in a certain way.

We can subjectively see when something is sexually simulating / attractive to another person, e.g. their sexuality or what turns them on, e.g. BDSM or preferred "kink" or whatever they call it these days.

We can see "gender" in the way things are viewed as male/female by wider society, e.g. lipstick is seen as a female thing, football as a (mostly) male thing. I am in no way saying I agree with "gender" but I "get" what people mean when they use it.

But "queer"? I'm really struggling with that one, especially when combined with the word queer and used by a woman in a heterosexual relationship with a beardy-male. What subjective things are there to help me understand what the term means?

I know this isn't exactly the right board, but it's where the experts of mumsnet are.

I tried to read that article but it just seems to be one word over and over again.

ME! Me! Me me me me me me meeeeeeee!

It's a way for the privileged to become an oppressed minority.
Far more oppressed than anyone else, especially women.

I've seen more than one tweet where people in the US saw UK feminists displaying suffragette colours and thought they had appropriated the "genderqueer flag"

We had training at work the other day about inclusivity, presented by someone who introduced herself as "a queer ciswoman whose pronouns are she and her". She could have just said "I'm Karen" - who introduces themselves by pointing out that they are a woman and who interests them romantically?

This diagram was then shared for us to use.

Does it not fall under the LAMISOT* umbrella?

*Look At Me I'm Special & Opressed Too

I know a bloke whose hobbies are real ale and football, but is “non-binary”, apparently.

I've seen more than one tweet where people in the US saw UK feminists displaying suffragette colours and thought they had appropriated the "genderqueer flag"

I didn’t even know there was such a thing; I only know those colours as suffragette colours. And as the suffragette movement was founded well over a century ago, who exactly is appropriating who?

Why is gender and sex banned in that poster- this just gets weirder and weirder. Soon we will all use the same pronoun and be forbidden from declaring sex or gender

Notevenmyrealname
As usual, mermaids is here to help!

ALittleBitofVitriol
Brilliant - now I know. And to think, all of these years, I could have been taking offence at people using the wrong pronouns for me and I didn’t even realise.

Mermaids - an interesting choice of name. A mythical creature - who dies in the end trying to become something she wasn’t.

Well Mermaids are right up to a point: Gender is a spectrum. Anyone can present as gloriously butch or gloriously feminine or a mixture of everything inbetween.

Doesn’t change anyone’s biological sex though.

If we as a society weren’t so squeamish about the word sex, we wouldn’t have this false conflating between sex and gender.

And as the suffragette movement was founded well over a century ago, who exactly is appropriating who?

That was the really funny part. On discovering this they got very defensive, because who should be expected to know anything about the stupid old Brits and their feminism

But whoever first came up with it must’ve know. The colours, the order... they thought we wouldn’t notice?

As a Northern Woman (a cis one, not one who actually lives in Surrey) I don't meet many genderqueer/non binary types, and I find it quite hard to beleive it's not all a big wind up tbh.
Growing up in the 90s I had short hair and all my boyfriends had long hair. One of them often wore skirts and lots wore eyeliner ( a la Kurt Cobain). Would that be queer now?
I feel all special.

I was yelling ‘sex sex it’s SEX’ at the radio this morning on the c of e having trans training.

And after all the bloody fuss there was about woman bishops 🙄.

But whoever first came up with it must’ve know. The colours, the order... they thought we wouldn’t notice?

IIRC the "creator" of this important symbol made a ridiculously melodramatic blog post about how they were traumatised by the accusations of having appropriated the suffragette colours by British feminists.

Lang wins the internet today.

These kids used to have to pretend to be working class and that was a right palaver - it was so hard to remember to choose salad cream instead of organic mayo.

Much easier to swap a shirt for a blouse or vice versa.
Shame no one cares which way your top is buttoned so you have to wear a pronoun badge with it.

Is no one emo now?
I totally get why young people (and not so young people) have to break out and be different. I had everything pierced cause I was so different. But no one has to give a talk at your work about not mentioning your ripped jeans.
I remember many a heated debated that ended in tears about whether goths had to die their hair black or if ginger was ok (never concluded) if officially bodies had started making charts we’d never have grown up.

'Gender' as a spectrum is ridiculously one-dimensional though, it suggests everyone is simply somewhere on a line between 'very feminine' and 'very masculine'. Many women adhere to some 'feminine' stereotypes (especially wrt looks because of their body shape, clothing because some styles look better on some shapes) but not at all to others (mental aptitudes, interests etc).

'Genderqueer'... more like GenderBloodyStupidPileOfIdiocy

DS had to organise an event for his part-time job. Apparently it had an 'LGBTQIA+ theme'.

I think what that means is 'everyone except -- YOU'.

it was so hard to remember to choose salad cream instead of organic mayo

I'll still be laughing at this tomorrow!

I think we need to get back to being a society that values stoicism and "not making a fuss".

God yes. Dh and I were watching some of the documentaries for 100 years since WW1 ended. Kids basically... flying bombing sorties and fighting for their lives. We wondered what that generation would think of this.

I’ve found the definition.

www.dailydot.com/irl/what-is-genderqueer/

It is apparently people whose gender identities “go against traditional expectations of what it means to have a gender” and “see themselves as outside of or in between the binary gender boxes”.

So... they are critical of gender norms, then?

So... they are critical of gender norms, then?

You'd have thought, but it seems more like they want other people to be limited to those 'binary gender boxes' so that they can 'identify' as not fitting into them.