What do you think 4th wave feminism is?

[Neurotrash]

I will probably regret asking...!

However I've just seen a fb acquaintance who I know is extremely upset about rape culture, sexism, pro me too etc but unlikely to be aware of more of the rad fem stuff going on, toasting 4th wave feminism after being involved in a local arts celebration of the suffragettes. Wearing a fabulous purple and green scarf that I'm v jealous of!

But I'm now a bit confused as I am beginning to think there are a few different perspectives. Could it be solely internet/ technology based? This is certainly a big factor in the spread of recent feminist theory, except it's helped all 'types' of feminism.

Thoughts?

I'm not able to reply and discuss a huge amount but I will be reading. Aka neurotrashwarrior.

I think it's blue hair.

Lol Freespeecher

I don’t know which wave we’re up to now. If it’s got a dick, or it’s about keeping dicks or their owners happy then I call it bullshit. I like my feminism like I like my bed, penis free.

Male centred pornified feminism and crazy hair

"Male centred pornified feminism "

wasn't that 3rd wave?

My online forums tout 4th wave as backlash to 3rd wave "prostituton is totes empowering, gotta be sex positive, no kink shaming and ooops just mentioned female biology so sorry for being exclusionary I will pay penance" and back to more ideas aligned with 2nd wave but fro new generation.

probably you can only look back and define what a social / political movement was, when it's done?

google says contradictory things.

in 30 years we will prob be able to say yes these were the main thrusts of the 4th wave

I’m more interested in a ‘second wave of second wave’ personally.

Yes I agree it's probably too early. Im intrigued to consider what people out there think of as this '4th wave feminism.' (Ie non mumsnetters!)

These days Wikipedia plays a big role in defining history among the general public and appears to be charting it very much as online and in response to sexual predation and 'intersectional'... this is where/ when I think it's too messy a list of things to define. And I don't trust Wikipedia. And yep think "blue hair"

I genuinely don't think this person is of the blue hair type.

My online forums tout 4th wave as backlash to 3rd wave "prostituton is totes empowering, gotta be sex positive, no kink shaming and ooops just mentioned female biology so sorry for being exclusionary I will pay penance" and back to more ideas aligned with 2nd wave but fro new generation.

I guess that's encouraging.

Possibly 2nd wave squared?!

I was born a couple of decades late for the second wave but I see myself as belonging to it.

The 3rd wave is the pomo bullshit dick-freeing, male-centred antifeminist movement pretending to be feminism in order for all the sex industry/kink proponents to scoop up young women "lovely lollypops! Come try my lovely lollypops!" to brainlessly think doing 'slut walks" benefited women - while of course fighting hard to silence and de-platform actual feminists who seek to end the sexual abuse and exploitation of women and girls.

I didn't realise a 4th wave had yet been officially coined.

I imagine in 50 to 100 years time the '3rd Wave' will be described more as part of the rise of queer theory where it intersects with sex industry interests. The word 'feminism' will not be used to describe it because it hasn't improved the lives and rights of women in any way, shape or form.

Sorry took ages to write that. Didn't see others posts.

So in short. I think history will probably name this current internet/social media, globally structured upsurge of feminism as the 3rd wave.

I see it differently and I believe this person does too in that 3rd wave was porn and Prostitution is A OKay where as I'm wondering if there is a dawning realisation that the second and first wave weren't fully completed. And the third made things worse.

I see radical feminism as stoically marching on along side all of them.

Queer theory definitely has nothing to do with it.

Queer theory has been important for normalising kink and BDSM (& prostitution) as part of the 3rd wave.

Agree 3rd wave is full of queer theory stuff

swerf n terf (can I say that?) swerf is out of 3rd wave
"kink shaming" as per PP is out of queer theory

3rd wave is wholly awful for women. libfem / "fun" fem etc

Libfems are all over the idea that female / woman / girl is nothing more than an idea in a man's head. Although lots of them don't seem to fully realise that is what they are signing up to...

Deference to people with penises is a big thing in libfem world

Ah thanks like, I didn't see it like that. I still believe it's nothing to do with feminism though.

And nothing.

I'm going to assume this person is thinking of what's touted by Wikipedia; a sort of 'Arab spring' type revolution.

4th Wave is when the tide’s going out again, leaving driftwood behind and suffocating fish flapping around in pools waiting for seagulls to pick them off one by one.

Maybe climate change means the next time the tide comes in it will reach further into shore.

Dunno about fourth wave, but there is a kind of feminism which:

1. Supports prostitution.

2. Defines 'woman' as a feeling, brain type or set of social stereotypes.

3. Opposes locking up men who are violent towards women ('anti-carceral feminism').

4. Maintains that lesbians who aren't attracted to male-bodied people are bigots.

5. Holds that all other social issues have to be sorted out before women's equality is addressed.

I think that's known as intersectionalism. Or it may be men's rights activism, hard to tell the difference.

I agree it has nothing to do with feminism.
It has everything to do with freeing the penis.
The 3rd wave is mis-named and is not part of the feminist movement.

Intersectionality within feminism was seen as an opportunity by MRAs/sex indrustry proponents to harness queer theory to demonise feminists and split the movement. There is nothing about the class analysis of second wave/radical feminism which does not allow for further analysis of other lines of inequality such as 'race', social class, disability, etc. Because feminists are women there is a huge degree of self reflection upon how to make things fairer and more inclusive for everyone.

MRAs steamed in, appropriated intersectional theory and conned a load of gullible women into thinking this inclusiveness must mean penises too. Fairness meant doing everything to please men.

Soz a bit slow I was responding to this: I still believe it's nothing to do with feminism though.

Fabulous description aspie!

I'm always confused about 'intersectional' as yes I can see it's been hijacked to further serve the penis.

Isn't there a site called 4thwavenow, which is for gender critical parents who suddenly have to deal with their children identifying as a gender?

I'd say, 4th wave must be the backlash against what calls itself 3rd wave but is rellay an MRA movement.

Oh yes hestia. I suspect the word will be/ is being used by a few different groups?

Maybe I'm being disingenuous and this person has joined all the dots fabulously so. However I seem to remember an advert for a part of the arts thing calling for female dancers saying they are 'inclusive' and take TW. Hence my query as to if anyone has a clue where this 'area' of feminism is going according to populist culture. But, I have no idea her true thoughts of course. I'm purple, white and green cloak and dagger on fb myself.

According to wikipedia:

Fourth-wave feminism is an approach to feminism that began around 2012 and is associated with the belief that all humans are equal. It heavily focuses on intersectionality, pushing for greater empowerment of traditionally marginalized groups in society, including women and girls.

Apparently the idea that all humans are equal began in 2012. Also feminism now merely includes women and girls. So everybody stop being selfish by expecting women to be a priority.