What do you think 4th wave feminism is?

[Neurotrash]

I will probably regret asking...!

However I've just seen a fb acquaintance who I know is extremely upset about rape culture, sexism, pro me too etc but unlikely to be aware of more of the rad fem stuff going on, toasting 4th wave feminism after being involved in a local arts celebration of the suffragettes. Wearing a fabulous purple and green scarf that I'm v jealous of!

But I'm now a bit confused as I am beginning to think there are a few different perspectives. Could it be solely internet/ technology based? This is certainly a big factor in the spread of recent feminist theory, except it's helped all 'types' of feminism.

Thoughts?

I'm not able to reply and discuss a huge amount but I will be reading. Aka neurotrashwarrior.

I too had just been looking at that and making similar links.

Also you notice Lizzy Evans' book is 'The Politics of Third Wave Feminisms' - an equality bullshitty title trying to delineate what feminism is while it's actually happening.

About her it says Elizabeth Evans is Lecturer in Politics at the University of Bristol. Her research focuses on gender and politics, including engagement with formal processes and political activism. She has published widely on aspects of feminism, gender and politics, and her previous book, Gender and the Liberal Democrats, was published in 2011.

www.palgrave.com/gb/book/9781137295262#aboutAuthors

This is relevant

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-goldsmiths-lecturer-natacha-kennedy-behind-smear-campaign-against-academics-f2zqbl222

Thanks likedust for your digging. It's all semantics at the moment I guess but important if some people are starting to regularly use the word. We need to be clear what it means at some point.

There are certainly a dizzying number of different types of 'feminism'.

However, outside of the whole trans debate it's understandable that there are women out there who want to explore women's rights without totally ostracizing/demonising men like many feminists do.

It was interesting seeing how much weight in Wikipedia is being given to a very insignificant and barely read publication. Tumbleweed - and the academic endorsing it had tumbleweed too - bar a few supportive posts from her friends at Bristol Uni.

The supposed weight to this 4th wave idea strikes me an effort of Goldsmiths manufacturing.

Too early to call, imo. Many seem to claim the mantle, but we will see what will prevail.

4th Wave Feminism is 2nd Wave rebooted ....

It also reminds me a bit of the tendency of today's youth to want to create endless sub categories for things, especially music. I remember when 'rock' was rock and 'drum n bass' was drum n bass. Now we have stupid names like 'liquid funk wobblestep' (ok made that up but you get the picture).

I'd like to think it's as Jacky says. And Aspie.

Second wave squared. Soildified. Let's face it, 2+2 = 4, not 5, 3 or a fluid woke number.

I‘d be good with 2^2=4. We‘ll see.

Another heap of BS as is the same with all incarnations of feminism. It is fairly evident from an objective outside view that you have a "hive" mind. I prefer independent thought.

I hope it's second wave redux.

Waves of feminism are not real. they are a media creation that allows the media (and aspiring academics) to create a diversionary activity that they own through their patronage of the approved spokeswomen. Media feminism is the main driver in this. It allows the agenda to be set and contained by men / the patriachy. And it help creates a demand that some women chose to fill by saying look at me daddy, haven't i written something clever.

In the meantime. real feminism, radical feminism, ie a feminism that means you act on your politics continues, but is deliberately not acknowledged.

It is primarily fanzine feminism based on having idols one follows rather than having a group practise based on common shared experience. Women's March is one example. It is about event feminism that the chosen few create and the mass consume. This in itself makes it anti feminist.

Social media just makes this faux feminism easier to be seen as the norm. (wikipedia has from the start never allowed women themselves to define feminism). And the social media bubble phenomenon means that women who get caught up in it are effectively isolated from forming or creating a movement.

Maybe this is one way in which the use of the word wave is accurate. It just comes and goes and you dip your toes in.

A movement is about creating and sustaining a wide body of individuals who despite diferrences are aiming in the same direction.

scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/47341203_2046854645337423_577759503169093632_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=486001f2621ed379fd00b7c0cc38ed4e&oe=5CB130CC

stumbledin well said.

Thank you stumbledin. Case closed.

quillette.com/2018/12/11/sad-radicals/#comments
Sad Radicals

No worldview maps reality perfectly. But when a worldview encounters discordant knowledge, it can either evolve to accommodate it, or it can treat it as a threat to the worldview’s integrity. If a worldview treats all discordant knowledge as threat, then it is an ideology. Its adherents learn to see themselves as guardians rather than seekers of the truth. The practical consequences of such a worldview can be devastating.

This article is well worth reading. I don't agree with it all, but its certainly thought provoking. The comments are also interesting.

The Guardians v Truth Seekers is authoritarianism v liberalism.

Thanks red, I'll have a read sometime.

This only really matters if lots of people are starting to say this is what they're following. Already wiki is trying to mould it and get men included simply from comparing the two edits I've linked. I was surprised to see the word on my fb feed.

As I said upthread and as stumble pointed out, Radical feminism spans the ages and just is true feminism as far as I'm concerned. But it took a while for me to understand it personally.

news.yahoo.com/twitter-warns-global-users-tweets-violate-pakistani-law-051409379.html;_ylt=AwrXnCEbWQ9cDUQAvwnQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--
Twitter warns global users their tweets violate Pakistani law

I've also seen this this morning. It's unrelated but related. The point being that foreign laws are apparently being used via twitter to places beyond their legal jurisdiction. The implications of this are huge. Which laws are being enforced by twitter (via political pressure in countries in which they operate) is crucial - and it suggests that countries which are generally more liberal about free speech and belief will be curtailed. Its again about the rise of authoritarianism v liberalism and it comes from both the left and right.

I find this article very troubling.

I hope they are of value to the thread though from a slightly different angle.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that politics are no longer about the truth and compromise but about guardians of morality and adherence to that morality which is facilitated by social media. The monopolies of the social media giants has narrowed who has power in many respects whilst it simultaneously gives the false impression of empowering the individual.

MN stands out in this precisely because its not one of the social media giants and so people used to the 'way of life' on the big platforms see it as a 'threat'.

Also feminism now merely includes women and girls. So everybody stop being selfish by expecting women to be a priority

It's such bullshit. Completely misunderstanding the concept of intersectionality.

Social media just makes this faux feminism easier to be seen as the norm. (wikipedia has from the start never allowed women themselves to define feminism). And the social media bubble phenomenon means that women who get caught up in it are effectively isolated from forming or creating a movement.

This. Great post, stumbled.

Maybe 4th wave Feminism is Titania McGrath (who no Twitter prison can hold, especially when Claire Lehmann and others take up the cudgels for her).

spectator.us/welcome-back-titania-mcgrath/

Great post stumbled

Also the periods where the 1st and 2nd waves began are really far apart. The vote for women was won in the UK in 1918 after many years of campaigning and activism. The Sex Discrimination Act was 1975. The country had been massively traumatised by war in between.

It was ridiculous and arrogant and possibly nefarious to declare a bloody 3rd wave when the 2nd wave feminists are still alive and actively campaigning. And then again, those women's libbers, still with loads to give to the feminist movement and the demands of the second wave still not having been met, are now insulted again by saying there's a bloody 4th wave.

There's a lot of ret-conning history and when the narrative seems to be seeping out of Natacha Kennedy, Roz Kaveney and Sarah Brown's quarters- it is highly suspect.